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Old October 2, 2012, 10:06 AM   #1
chiefr
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Things you dislike to see on milsurps

I have gone to many gunshow over the years to include a huge one recently in Dallas Texas. Never could resist the urge to examine the milsurps as I made my way around. As I examined many milsurps, several things always turned me off:

1. Sporterization: I have seen outstanding custom quality sporters, however what irks me is seeing the original stock cut and sanded and the front sight cut off. Then the guy wants the same price for his prize as if the gun was in its original military condition. A dealer I know calls these "Bubba jobs"

2. Crests ground off

3. Importers marks. Sure I understand laws, but why such large conspicuous letters on the slide, the receiver, or the frame. I always appreciated when importers places their marks inconspicuously near the end of the barrel or other inconspicuous places.

I was curious if any of you have similar thoughts.
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Old October 2, 2012, 12:09 PM   #2
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The most egregious of the three to me is the Bubbaed up rifle. Yes, in days gone there were some fine custom sporters built on military surplus rifles. But at the time it was an economical advantage to do so. Now there are plenty of excellent commercial guns to choose from. Then you have the ones that "Bubba" decided to customize in his garage shop with a hacksaw, and file. Unfortunately that still happens all to often today. At least most of it now is being done on Mosin Nagant 91-30'a that are as about abundant as bunnies on Easter. Or "add on", replacement parts for an SKS that can be taken off to restore them to original.

As far as the ground crest, not much can be done about that. As countries fell, and regimes changed political powers removed symbols of the previous times. When you think about it, it's actually part of the gun's history.

The import marks are, as you said, required. But for collectors some importers could be more discrete. Although all my milsurps are bought as shooters, and used as such they really don't bother me all that much.
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Old October 2, 2012, 12:14 PM   #3
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Rust.
Most of the other stuff I can live with. I figure that a sportered or bubba'd up rifle was put into it franken-config by someone who wanted to be more comfortable while shooting it. I'm good with that. A rifle that is hung and rusts quietly... that makes me shake my head.
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Old October 2, 2012, 05:51 PM   #4
chiefr
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One milsurp I often see bubba'd is the 1917 Enfields. At the last gunshow I went to, I say two complete original Eddystones. There were 5 others which had either cut down stocks, upper handguards removed, front sight mods or other modifications. Several years ago, I saw one where someone tried to grind off the entire rear sight guard "wings".
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Old October 3, 2012, 08:30 AM   #5
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Anything that attempts to render it "tactical". It's a rifle. It's a pistol. It's already 'tactical'.
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Old October 4, 2012, 02:36 PM   #6
doofus47
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jsmaye
Quote:
Anything that attempts to render it "tactical".
Ok, +1 to that. Tactical is just tacky...
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Old October 4, 2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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Crest grinding has never really bothered me, a lot of countries did that before the rifles left the arsenals. The biggest one that comes to mind are the Argentine Mausers, a lot of them (I'd be willing to say at least 75%) had the crests taken off the receiver by the Argentine military.

I will +1 the tactical garbage, I'm sorry there is no such thing as a tactical Mosin Nagant M44... It may pain people to read this but it's true...

My biggest pet peeve on surplus rifles is people letting them rot... I've seen some pretty awful 'sporterized' rifles in my day... I'm talking I don't even know what it started as. But usually the people keep them up because they either hunt with them or try to make a target gun from them. What I hate is grandpa passing on his Kar98 capture that he brought back to his grandson who lets it sit in the corner of the untreated basement or in the attic...
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Old October 4, 2012, 05:47 PM   #8
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Other people's hands!
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:22 PM   #9
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High price tags
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:49 PM   #10
kilimanjaro
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There's a 1917 Eddystone at local shop, cut down forend, and the rear sight protection wings are ground off. Total junker now. Asking $450 for it, dream on.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:23 PM   #11
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Ground down emblems I can stand. Granted a mum on an Arisaka is nice but not a deal breaker if it's ground. What I won't tolerate is bubba hack jobs to include "tactical modifications" since it's all one in the same to me. I don't give a damn if it was Stalin's personal Mosin-Nagant, one piece that has been cut off, bent, welded on or what-not, the historical value is ruined and the best you are going to get out of me is $20!
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Old October 5, 2012, 08:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
High price tags
+1000

Most are too young to remember that these old mil-surps cost $10-15 back in the day and they were a cheap way to have a deer rifle. Many of the guys buying these had carried them for 5-6 years of war2 and didn't want to be reminded of it.
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Old October 5, 2012, 07:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Most are too young to remember that these old mil-surps cost $10-15 back in the day and they were a cheap way to have a deer rifle.
Yep, bought several Mausers and an Arisaka out of a 55 gallon drum at Gibsons for 15.00. I can also remember when you couldn't give a Mosin away.
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Old October 7, 2012, 06:27 AM   #14
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Import marks and scrubbed crests.
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Old October 7, 2012, 10:23 AM   #15
Willie Sutton
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Scrubbed Crests are a part of a guns history. We all know why Mums were ground off by the Japanese. Would we prefer one to be intact? Yes, but... even so it's part of it's heritage, and is not vandalism. Markings are interesting: Ever see a Kar-98K modified to 7.62 and with Nazi Waffenamt markings right next to the Star of David? Markings come and markings go and their presence (or removal) ebbs and flows with the tide of war. It's all good as long as it's original.

Crudely applied and badly placed import markings? That's vandalism. A little care goes a long way. Century ought to be spanked for the way they mark things. I absolutely positively will never buy anything marked by them. Other importers marking vary.

Bubba-Sporterizing takes a gun out of even the slightest consideration. It's no longer a military arm at that point and might as well be a badly maintained Mossberg. Just pass it by and not even give it a second thought. Sort of like Mosin Nagants.... (sorry, no interest). Actually, Mosin's do have an important role to play now: They let Bubba continue the hobby of "file and hacksaw improvements" while leaving Mausers and Enfields and Arisakas alone and unmolested. Go Bubba!


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Last edited by Willie Sutton; October 7, 2012 at 10:30 AM.
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Old October 7, 2012, 03:17 PM   #16
DennisCA
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I hate (ok maybe too strong of word: dislike):
Bubbin'

High-Price tags (overpriced)

(my pet peeve)
People who think they know-everything about C&R guns but really nothing very little or nothing at all!
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Old October 10, 2012, 06:35 AM   #17
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akguy1985
Import marks and scrubbed crests.
Import marks on post 1968 imported fire arms. Blame the National Firearms Act. Pryor to that no import marks.

The scrubbed crests on war reparation rifles and surrender rifles are part of the history.
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Old October 12, 2012, 10:28 PM   #18
sc928porsche
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Its as shame that Holland and Holland did all those bubba jobs on mausers.
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Old October 13, 2012, 12:47 AM   #19
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As for the Mosins. I would be careful about saying they are too common.
I remember having my pick of $30 303's once.
I should have bought ten of them. Heck I wish I still had the one I did buy.
There will be at least ten Mosins in the house before they become rare.
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Old October 13, 2012, 12:51 AM   #20
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I know what you mean. I got my minty M44 years ago for $50 and now I look around on gunbroker and see what the prices have jumped to now! My Norinco SKS was bought back in the $69 days and what do you think they are going for now? I wouldn't reccomend chopping up at Nagant to any of my friends but to the rest of the world, I say go ahead and chop away all you gunsmiths to be!!! It makes my unmolested rifle that much more valueable in the future! hehehe
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Old October 13, 2012, 01:11 AM   #21
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Dang, this thread was kinda disappointing. I was hoping to see a bunch of cool "bubba'd" tacticool Mausers....among others.
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Old October 13, 2012, 08:52 AM   #22
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc928porsche
Its as shame that Holland and Holland did all those bubba jobs on mausers.
Don't leave out the Enfields.

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