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Old October 7, 2012, 01:43 AM   #1
RwBeV
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Mystery rifle

I found this thing at our local gun shop, it says its chambered in 6mm but I'm not sure yet. Its left handed and has a swing style safety thats not in the pictures. The bolt was busted off at some point in time. I knew what it was as soon as I seen it but had to bring it home to make sure. Any guesses?




Bob
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Old October 7, 2012, 01:33 PM   #2
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My guess

I am guessing with the swing style safety, it is a Win model 70.

Be interested to see the correct answer.
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Old October 7, 2012, 02:57 PM   #3
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Not a Winchester, that action is round and looks like the recoil lug isn't attached to the receiver either. I may be mistaken as well but by the picture it looks like there might be a third recoil lug on the bolt. Bolt shroud isn't correct for a Winchester either. I don't have a clue as to who made the action but it will take some work to make it a complete rifle again.
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Old October 7, 2012, 03:24 PM   #4
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If i make a guess, it will be wrong. Doing so will only prove my ignorance so I'll keep quiet. Although I am interested in the correct answer just out of curiosity.
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Old October 7, 2012, 03:51 PM   #5
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The action is complete, all I have to do is weld a new bolt handle on it. When I get done trying to figure out how this fellow did this, its going to be a nice rifle for my buddies wife since she is left handed. I will give you a hint its a military action that has been completely redone, I figure it was done in the 50's or 60's and who ever did this was no shade tree gun smith, this guy was good I wish I knew who it was.

Bob
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Old October 7, 2012, 04:48 PM   #6
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I looks like it used to be a large ring / intermediate length Mauser action.

But... there's no justifiable reason to chop the recoil lug off the bottom of a Mauser. And, that push-feed bolt doesn't fit the stereotype.
So... I don't know.

Actually....
I'm thinking Type 38 Arisaka. ...with a LOT of work done to it.
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Old October 7, 2012, 05:16 PM   #7
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I'm also thinking highly modified Arisaka, ok you can tell us now.............
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Old October 7, 2012, 05:52 PM   #8
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I agree with Cornbush about the Arisaka, but with emphasis on the "highly". No matter what the base, whoever did that was undoubtedly skilled, but with a lot of time on his hands.

More important, if the bolt and receiver were as heavily modified by welding as it appears, there is NO way I would fire that rifle. Nyet. Nein. Non. No.

No one can have any idea what the welding heat did to the original steel or even what the original steel was in the first place. It might, for example, have been an Arisaka, or it might have been a Japanese cast iron training rifle. I don't know and doubt anyone does.

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Old October 7, 2012, 06:01 PM   #9
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Deleted as duplicate.

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Old October 7, 2012, 06:18 PM   #10
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You got it cornbush, you are looking at a highly modified type 38 Jap action, there is now way that anyone now days would even consider doing such a job.

As far as safety, as much crud that was in the barrel and action its been shot a bunch. I checked the hardness checked and also did a Magna-Flux, it shows no cracks of sub-surface indications. As far as it being a cast action, it don't take much to tell the difference, mainly because cast would of had to be welded with Nickel rod and it would not blue. And the day I cant tell the difference between a cast and a steel action will be the day I close the door on my shop.

Being a gun smith and a welder from what I see it wont bother me at all to shoot the thing. It must have concerned the builder somewhat he added a 3rd recoil lug. Even the trigger is a modified type 38 trigger it is adjustable for both pull and creep.

My hats off to who ever did this, I only wish I knew who it was.

Bob
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:30 PM   #11
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Someone cut down the left side of the action, then welded a piece into the right hand side and machined it down. They also filled in the extractor collar slot and the extractor slot in the bolt, cut away the cocking cam and filled in the original cam, then moved the bolt handle and welded the recoil lug to the barrel and/or receiver.

Maybe, as a gunsmith and welder, you feel you have the expertise to know that all that heating and welding didn't affect the strength of anything. I don't have your super expertise, and I wish you luck, but I wouldn't fire it from the shoulder for any amount of money.

Jim
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:07 PM   #12
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I don't spend much time on this Forum, but once in a great while I find something that might be of interest to some, but there always seems to be someone out there that has to be smart ass and cant see it for what it is. All that I was trying to show is that some gun smithing pioneer in the past took the time to look past all of the short comings of the Arisaka and built something out of one that would suit his needs. I'm just glad that not all of us think like you or we would all be shooting Muskets still.

No one asked you to shoot it and I damn sure not going to offer you money to do so. No wonder this Forum has such a bad reputation, guess I will go back to the Forum's that can appreciate craftsmanship and forward thinking.

Your right you don't know my "super expertise" but you do make me wonder out of almost 15000 posts how many have been insults?

Bob
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:37 PM   #13
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Settle down and don't look for insults in simple statements.

The only reason why TFL MIGHT have a bad reputation is because of people being too prickly and going off in a huff.

Converting military actions from right to left hand was relatively common with rifles when commercial left handed actions were not available. I've seen Springfields, Enfield M1917s and Mausers so converted and in regular use.
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Old October 8, 2012, 12:28 AM   #14
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Given the approximate timeframe in which this conversion was done (pre mig, tig, cnc mill, etc) my hat is off to the man who did this. The sheer volume of time put into this is deserving of respect even if it is never fired again. I have been welding for twenty years. I have a lathe, mill, mig, arc, plasma, and various other requisite tools in my shop and i would never attempt this.
I for one appreciate what you have on your hands.
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Old October 8, 2012, 01:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
You got it cornbush, you are looking at a highly modified type 38 Jap action,
No love for FrankenMauser?
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Old October 8, 2012, 09:04 AM   #16
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Boy bob you sure gave me a fright. At a first glance i thought maybe your cenilness had caught up to you again and you had posted a picture of a half modified mauser some darn kid started building and left in your shop for you to forget whos it was. But then i realized it didn't look right for a mauser and the bolt was on the wrong side. Ive only seen the jap rifles in pictures so i have never got to examine one up close but it is obvious that who ever built was seriously skilled and had a lot of time on there hands. Ill have to check it out next time i come over.
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Old October 8, 2012, 01:56 PM   #17
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I would shoot it, as a welder it looks like pretty dam good work from the pictures, I still love you Frankenmauser
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Old October 8, 2012, 03:25 PM   #18
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Yea I'm new to this hole forum thing and still getting used to it . Im getting better as far as not taking offence to what people post . I also try not to put attitude to words . I've been trying to look at it as more of a conversation then a he said she said .
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Old October 8, 2012, 07:57 PM   #19
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No Matt I'm saving that weld job for you, you might have to clean the dust off but its still in the same place.

Well no matter what you think about it, IMHO its one heck of a job, I can find no porosity in any of the weld lines, even where he re-broached the rails. I have welded up a lot of actions one way or the other there always seems to be that one little pin hole that has to be a pain. I compared an original bolt to the one here it was not just cut down, but filled in and re-machined and again no sign of a weld.

Bob
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Old October 9, 2012, 11:21 AM   #20
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This rifle was probably purchased for about $15 after the war and it made sense to alter it for hunting and re-sell for about $80. It may have been proof-tested by the gunsmith and determined to be safe enough at that time. Gunsmith time and machine costs were probably about $8 per hour when that was converted, but it's plausible that he did it for re-sale, or for his own use.

Fortunately, people these days have access to relatively inexpensive new rifles, so it doesn't make much sense to repair and use the particular Jap barreled-action in question (except for bragging rights). For instance, Ruger Americans are being sold at discount sporting goods stores and Wal-Mart for less than $350.
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Old October 9, 2012, 12:01 PM   #21
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I'd check for lug recess setback. The bolt handle may have broken off due to it acting as a safety lug, or the action being jammed so tight they had to hit the bolt handle with a mallet to open it.
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Old October 9, 2012, 01:21 PM   #22
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Agree with Picher, it was done back when surplus rifles were cheap, gunsmith pay was low, and the sinister 10% of the population not much interest to Remchester.

Perhaps not economically feasible but an interesting rehabilitation project if you have the tools and knowhow. I sure would not pay somebody else to work on it at current rates, though.
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Old October 9, 2012, 02:11 PM   #23
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Old October 9, 2012, 09:13 PM   #24
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For some reason the bolt handle is the only **** poor weld on the thing he didn't get a full-pen weld on it you can see it in the picture. If there where bolt set back it would have some head space but it don't, it closes on a go gage with a feel, a no-go is not even close, I like this guy.

Bob
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