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Old October 5, 2012, 02:50 PM   #1
Maligator
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8x57 S

I was given a rifle that my step-grandfather owned and used and I am trying to figure out a little of the history. My dad was acutally given the rifle, he never used it and has no idea about it. He even asked me what caliber it was.

I know it's an 8mm; I was wondering if any of you could provide a little more detail for me. I know it was made in Sweden and I'm pretty sure it's the .323 caliber.

1: Top of barrel is Stamped 8x57 S
2: Carl Gustafs Stads Gevärsfaktori
3: Barrel has SN: MB 70241 (the 2 looks like a 9 & 2 combined also kinda weird)
4: following the SN there is a stamp with a " C with a K stamped inside the C, followed by 11/63 followed by a stamp of C with a S inside the C"
5: Has a hooded front sight

I'd like to reload for this and its in great shape and very solid. I appreciate any help you may be able to provide. I'm also going to keep looking online and see if I can find out more.

Thanks,
Maligator

Last edited by Maligator; October 5, 2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Old October 5, 2012, 03:52 PM   #2
PetahW
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I believe you have an 8x57 Mauser target rifle - The CG-63 - introduced on May 1, 1963 by the Carl Gustafs Stads Gevarsfaktori. (CG)

During the production period CG made up around 60,000 target rifles.
Almost all used existing M-96 rifle or M-94 carbine actions which were inspected to make sure they were super straight. Although some Husqvarna actions have also been used.

AFAIK, The standard CG-63 barrel was a free-floated heavy barrel which measures 19.0mm at the action, tapering to 17.5 mm at the muzzle.

The rifling twist rate for most CG-63s is 1:220mm. (the M96, M38, & M94 all had a 1:200mm twist rate)

The CG-63s were also made in military versions called the M6 and M7 - but w/o a pic or a more complete description - IDK which you have.

The standard target ammunition for the CG-63s was originally a 140gr Boatail bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 2,600 fps.

Some CG-63s have glass bedded actions and some have steel stock inserts.

The first CG-63 sights were Carl Gustafs GF micrometer receiver sights with a 2mm aperture.


.
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Old October 5, 2012, 04:12 PM   #3
Maligator
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Thanks for the reply PetahW. I really appreciate the info. I just sent an email to Saab Land Division in Sweden asking for any assistance they might be able to provide as well.

It is a well built and sturdy weapon for sure and I would like to be able to reload cartridges for it and take it out elk, bear or deer hunting.
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Old October 5, 2012, 07:42 PM   #4
btmj
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I did not realize that 8mm projectiles were so light. 140 grains is a pretty low sectional density for 8mm. It implies a low ballistic coefficient.

I think the German WWII military ammo was heavier, wasn't it ? 190 grains or so?
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Old October 5, 2012, 08:42 PM   #5
PetahW
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Military 7.92x57 (8x57JRS) ammo was loaded much heavier than target ammo, with 196gr FMJ's, IIRC - and commercial hunting stuff not much lighter @ 180gr.


.
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Old October 6, 2012, 12:23 PM   #6
Buzzcook
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8mm Mauser will do for any game animal in Washington state.

The Hornady Interlock SP is relatively inexpensive and works fine.
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Old October 6, 2012, 12:40 PM   #7
Maligator
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Thanks for the heads up Buzzcook. I just called Dillon this morning and ordered a set of Redding 8mm dies. Next will be to get the components together and then work up a few loads.

Right now my go to rifle is my 300 WSM with 180gr Accubonds. Good medicine there

I really like the feel of this 8mm and am looking forward to getting it out there shooting.
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Old October 6, 2012, 06:14 PM   #8
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The CG-63 was made from re-barreling- "sporterizing", I guess- old m/94 and m/96 rifles. All of these were 6.5 x 55...

How common was it to re-barrel these into 8mm? Seems odd, as the 8mm would be harder hitting, but the ballistics of the 6.5 are much better- so since the CG-63 was a target rifle, why go with 8mm?
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Old October 6, 2012, 11:38 PM   #9
Rainbow Demon
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The WW1 era 7.92X57S used a 154 grain bullet at around 2800+ fps.
The WW2 era 7.92X57 standard ball cartridge used a 196 gr bullet.
The heavier bullet gave better penetration of obstacles and better energy at longer ranges. I think they were mainly interested in a cartridge suited to the MG34 LMG with infantry rifle use secondary.
Early in WW2 German Infantry were issued one five round stripper clip of Tungsten Carbide core AP ammo, for use if pinned down by allied AFVs.

Quote:
The standard target ammunition for the CG-63s was originally a 140gr Boatail bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 2,600 fps.
A similarly downloaded .30-06 cartridge was used by some South American police armed with the short barreled .30-06 Mauser Police Carbines. The muzzle blast and recoil of the full house .30-06 from an 18 in barrel being too much for police work.
Balistics were similar to the .30-30.
These same downloaded .30-06 cartridges were also used at military or police academies for target shooting with the full length service rifles on 200 yard ranges.

Last edited by Rainbow Demon; October 6, 2012 at 11:45 PM.
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:13 AM   #10
Jim Watson
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The CG63 was made in 6.5x55, hence the 140 grain bullet. I think the Internet Search for a 140 grain 8mm is a wild goose chase.
Also in .308, which I once owned. A nice rifle but long and heavy.

I believe the OP has Something Else as I have not heard of an 8mm CG63.

I think it a hunting rifle on the Swedish Mauser action.

But we will not know for sure until and unless the OP shows us pictures.
It takes a trained description to identify a gun, pictures are more reliable.
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Old October 7, 2012, 11:19 AM   #11
Maligator
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I agree that I will have to post pics for a better understanding of what I have. I'll try and get some pictures up a little later today, have to remove the scope for a clearer view.

Mr Watson, thank you for your input, I have read many of your posts over on THR to try and get a better understanding of this rifle as it seems you are pretty knowledgeable about such things.

Like I said, I'll try and get some photos up a little later today and thank you all for your input, it is appreciated.

Maligator
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Old October 7, 2012, 11:20 AM   #12
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edit

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Old October 7, 2012, 08:54 PM   #13
James K
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To answer the original question, that rifle was made for a cartridge identical to the German 7.9sS, aka the 8x57JS, with the .323" bullet diameter. U.S. factory ammo will work OK, but is somewhat underpowered. There is a large supply of milsurp ammo in that caliber, but some has corrosive primers.

Jim
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Old October 8, 2012, 04:32 PM   #14
tobnpr
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I have never seen any information showing the CG-63 as anything other than original caliber of the m/94 and /96 Mausers they were built from- 6.5 x 55...

Please post your information that says differently?

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artikla.../rifles_se.htm
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Old October 9, 2012, 08:24 AM   #15
Jim Watson
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All I can offer that says differently is an assertion of my personal possession of a factory CG63 in .308.
Since I traded the rifle off some years ago and my records were lost in a house fire, I cannot show you documentary proof.

There are www references at
http://www.northcapepubs.com/swmauser.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser

Unfortunately secondary or tertiary references, but the best I can (or will) do now.
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Old October 9, 2012, 08:56 AM   #16
tobnpr
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Thanks.
The Wiki reference you mentioned does include .308, but I'm still not convinced on the 8mm Mauser chambering...which is what the OP originally asked about.
Without pics, there's no way to know.

Many m/1894 carbines and m/1896 rifles were successfully converted by Carl Gustafs and Norma into the CG 63 Competition Rifle chambered in 6.5x55mm and 7.62x51mm NATO. These rifles are known to be very accurate, with heavy free-floating barrels, diopter sights (many models), target stocks and tuned triggers.

Natch, anyone could put an 8mm Mauser chambered barrel on one, my question is whether that was actually done by Gustaf's, as a "factory" CG-63 build.
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Old October 9, 2012, 09:55 AM   #17
PetahW
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FWIW, to quote the OP:

3: Barrel has SN: MB 70241

4: following the SN there is a stamp, followed by 11/63



IMHO, that makes it a high probability that the barrel's a gennie/original.


.
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Old October 9, 2012, 11:16 AM   #18
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not common but not uncommon calibre here, getting a sorta renaisence here due to more hogs and bears and people want something with a bit more umph

I think my pops got one in the back of the safe but it is my mums and she hasn't fired it since the 80s or so

never heard about target rifles in the calibre thou, the 6.5 reigned /reign supreme in practically all different target sports here, gun smiths made 6.5 barrels in all sorts of rifles that didn't have it as standard, every other rem7600/760 I look at has got a 6.5 barrel to.
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Old October 9, 2012, 11:19 AM   #19
Jim Watson
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Quote:
The Wiki reference you mentioned does include .308, but I'm still not convinced on the 8mm Mauser chambering...which is what the OP originally asked about.
Without pics, there's no way to know.

The OP didn't say anything about a CG63 target rifle, that was PetahW's conclusion, which I (rarely) doubt.

Pictures, Maligator, pictures.
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Old October 9, 2012, 11:30 AM   #20
Husqvarna
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Does it cock on closing? a bitch to close?

what my father thought me is to let the recoil (small in a 6.5 so not much to work with but still) let the barrel rise up it gives you a better angle to clsoe it quick, IMO better then to take it down from your shoulder

also remember that these old recievers aren't made for todays hotter loads, and the 96 mechanism hasn't got the best reputation for when it actually breaks
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Old October 9, 2012, 11:35 AM   #21
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how does the bolt look?

I skimmed my local dealers webpage his Husqvarna m96 in 8x57 lacks the hooded sight but his CG63 got it and the bolt looks different

husqvarna m96 8x57js


the cg63
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