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Old October 4, 2012, 10:37 AM   #26
chris in va
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That's the beauty of the CZ75b. Every shot can be SA if you wish.
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Old October 4, 2012, 11:47 AM   #27
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The ability to carry the CZ hammer down or cocked and locked is a pretty sweet thing. I see myself purchasing the commie gun at some point in the future.
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Old October 4, 2012, 11:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Quote:
Really IMO you buy a glock . I have never owned a glock but have shot them . They are what every body compares there guns to


Speak for yourself. I compare guns to my Sigs and CZs.
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Well, I will not say what I really compare a glock to, I am sure the moderator would boot me for a while, shoot, maybe even permanently .

Suffice to say they rate down there with Saturday night specials in days gone by in my book.

The guns everyone compares guns to are classics like the 1911, Walther PPK and newer ones like S&W DAs (now gone ) Sig and HK.

And yes, most of the DA/SA types (with exposed hammers) can be fired SA if you want that finer touch. I do it myself even in a HD check of a bump in the night if its a really serious sounding one.

I have a smattering of experience with the 1911s (great trigger). Not enamored with it like some but if you want just a target gun it sure fits a bill there.

The DA/SA Sigs and HKs are the class of the group these days with some claiming CZ (no personal experience on those but they seem to be more inconsistent as to how one shoots vs another one, ie a wider range of quality control). Walther has a following though I would need to shoot one as the trigger setup seems to have too many options.

I am fine with poly, and have actively shot the HK P30 and like it a lot. All the HKs I handled USP/P2000 all had the finest feeling grip of any period. Price is a shocker, but its a very good gun and I would own one if not for the price.

I did buy a Sig SP2022 and its worth a look and test. Price vs value in my estimation it gets you about 98% of what the higher priced Sigs and HKs get you at half the cost (or less). If the government went with that philosophy in buying hardware we would all have lower taxes!

So, start at the top looking, not the bottom and good luck with the selection process!
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Old October 4, 2012, 12:17 PM   #29
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SIG P226 Navy


Ish! I forgot I have a PPQ now... it's on my 4:00

Walther PPQ also.
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Old October 4, 2012, 01:45 PM   #30
loose_holster_dan
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how's that ppq working out for you constantine? get the firing pin figured out?
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Old October 4, 2012, 03:03 PM   #31
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You know you like the Beretta 92 and it is a very well made pistol (as well as being one of the more handsome pistols on the market). Be very sure that you want something else before you go another direction. There are lots of nice pistols to try, but the 92 is your "bird in the hand."
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Old October 4, 2012, 03:21 PM   #32
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I've had a 92FS for about 10 years, shot it a bunch, still shoot it. If you want it for IDPA competition the Glock might be faster than the Beretta. For general use I bought the Beretta, I also shoot it in IDPA as is- no modification other than a taller rear sight, I win my class with it unless shooting against some of the youngsters, I'm 67, they shoot faster, miss more than I do but come out better on the clock. I bought the Beretta, life is too short to shoot an ugly gun.
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Old October 4, 2012, 06:06 PM   #33
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I did buy a Sig SP2022 and its worth a look and test. Price vs value in my estimation it gets you about 98% of what the higher priced Sigs and HKs get you at half the cost (or less).
I thought this until I realized it only came with one mag. And the shop wanted to sell me more at $53 a pop. Can get them online, including shipping for about $45, give or take, each. My wife got her 2022 for $400, but I've already invested almost $100 more than that "great price", just for her to have as many magazines that come standard with most guns now. Just want to make that clear, part of the reason it's cheap is that Sig skimps on the magazines.

EDIT: I will say, if you want a Sig, even factoring in the cost of additional mags, it is a pretty good deal. The cheapest 229 (which seems to be about equivalent in size) that I think I've ever seen was around $700. But again, just want to make sure the magazine thing is clear.
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:36 PM   #34
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for a full sized nine, there arent but so many options, cz75b as already stated, then the sig, then glock17.
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:50 PM   #35
Constantine
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Originally Posted by loose_holster_dan View Post
how's that ppq working out for you constantine? get the firing pin figured out?
Hey! Yeah brother. I think it was the pen I was hitting. Already broke. Wasn't a 100% flat surface. Did it again and again with a flat pencil and the sucker flew.

SIG 1911 XO / SA 1911 custom / Colt Gold Cup / Colt 70 Series / SIG P226 e2 / Browning High-power / Walther PPQ / G34 / G19 / G21 / G22 / S&W M-19 / Hk USP 40 / Rem 870 / Rock R. AR-15

sent from my Samsung Galaxy SII
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:08 PM   #36
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I have over 15000 FLAWLESS rds fired through my Italian made 92FS. Purchased new. I replaced the recoil spring after about 10,000 rds, didn't need to but figured for a few bucks why not. It's still nice & tight & the slide rides like it's on ball bearings. It's also only seen the two mags that came with it.

Ive also owned an American made one , no difference as far as I was concerned. I purchased it for $350 used & put well over 5000 rds through it flawlessly.

The 92FS is pure joy to shoot. Low recoil & smooth as glass. More accurate than most of us. Easy to maintain, with spectacular reliability. Truly amazing handgun.

Last edited by triplebike; October 4, 2012 at 09:20 PM.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:09 PM   #37
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If you want a 92 but would like to shave a few oz. off the weight then try the Beretta ninety two. The frame is hollowed out to reduce the weight. I have a 92 and tried the other. Both shoot fine. I have a CZ75 and it shoots well to. I do like the old W. German P226 by far. You can only get them in the used catagory now. My only problem with Glock is I need to rotate my wrist to get the sights to line up properly. After 3 operations on that wrist it isn't the most comfortable thing to do.

Everyone will probably have a preference in a full size pistol and they won't all be the same. That is why so many different ones are made. Stick with the major manufactures and you will probably be happy.

I am only speaking about range pistols here and not something I would normally conceal carry.

Feeding a 9 mm semi-auto pistol can get expensive. Reloading has helped to releave some of that expense. Shooting is fun.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:15 PM   #38
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The DA/SA Sigs and HKs are the class of the group these days with some claiming CZ (no personal experience on those but they seem to be more inconsistent as to how one shoots vs another one, ie a wider range of quality control).


I have not heard this... I own two CZs currently...

CZs are good to go... At most the trigger can be a little stiff and need a few hundred rounds to smooth out... But they are reliable and well built. They shoot great. CZ is known for great accuracy.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:27 PM   #39
Mark In Texas
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I've carried full sized CZ 85B Combat and I regularly carry a CZ-75 PCR. The PCR, of course, easier to conceal. Both shoot well, but the PCR shoots best.

If you want to carry a full sized handgun, I would certainly look at the CZ. A good friend of mine had ordered a Beretta 92 based on a recommendation but I convinced him to go to the range with me where he rented a Beretta and shot my CZ. Next day he cancelled the order for the Beretta and bought the CZ, saving $150, which paid for his CHL class.
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Old October 5, 2012, 04:59 PM   #40
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You need to shoot more guns ...so you can evaluate them ( its not what I prefer ) its what you prefer....grip angle, the controls, the trigger - how it breaks, how it resets, the sights, the width, weight....all that stuff makes a big difference.

I like the Sig 226 a lot / its their full sized double stack gun ....but nothing wrong with a Sig 229 or a single stack 239 either...it depends on what you want....( or a Glock, or XDM, or H&K, or whatever )....

A buddy went thru this recently ...he's been lusting after a Sig 226 or a Beretta 92 for a long time.....we went to my local range...he rented both/hated them both. He has some hand issues / old finger issues ...and he couldn't manipulate the controls on either the Beretta or the Sig ...so he ended up with an XDM in 9mm....but it turned out the gun he liked the best was a 1911 in 9mm ( in a 5" barrel ) ...but he didn't want to spend the money on that gun ...so he went with the XDM.
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Old October 6, 2012, 02:14 AM   #41
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To whoever posted the FNX as a suggestion,
That is a compact.
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Old October 6, 2012, 08:37 AM   #42
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I have several full size 9mm's and still looking to buy more, but here is a quick summary.

pt 92 inox (Taurus) - I know not a Baretta but built at their old factory. Very reliable and nice handling gun. A bit big and heavy though.

PX4 - Yes this is a real Baretta! Wonderful gun. Smooth and reliable and still one of the best fit for my hand.

Caracal F - One of my favorite. Simple, and one of the most accurate with me. In a pinch I would grab this gun if there was anything wrong outside.

Glock - Very nice brand new (50 rnds. through it). I love glocks but they have never proved to be my most accurate, but like the Caracal are simple and get the job done. A little bit clunkier now that I put the Caracal right next to it.

Hi-Point - (low end) Not bad for the 150.00 I paid. Shoots a little harder than the others but this gun is brand new also so have to put some ammo through it. Good backup gun.

What am I leaving out -

Sig p226 - have not shot but handled and love the feel although have been told is very similar to the 92.
CZ 75b or spo1 - have only held and seemed a little thinner than the Sig.
PPQ - Almost bought one but had just picked up the Glock or Caracal and felt very similar to them in being a nice poly and was edging more toward a metal framed gun like the sig or cz
HK ? - Have 0 experience with these.

I think the big limiting factor is poly or not. I think in 9mm I am going to pick the newer mk? Sig 226 or a Cz because I want a metal frame.

If it was a poly I would consider the PPQ or maybe an HK.

Good luck in picking one!
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Old October 6, 2012, 11:04 AM   #43
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I thought this until I realized it only came with one mag. And the shop wanted to sell me more at $53 a pop. Can get them online, including shipping for about $45, give or take, each. My wife got her 2022 for $400, but I've already invested almost $100 more than that "great price", just for her to have as many magazines that come standard with most guns now. Just want to make that clear, part of the reason it's cheap is that Sig skimps on the magazines.

EDIT: I will say, if you want a Sig, even factoring in the cost of additional mags, it is a pretty good deal. The cheapest 229 (which seems to be about equivalent in size) that I think I've ever seen was around $700. But again, just want to make sure the magazine thing is clear.
Valid point and what magazine(s) you get from Sig at any point is alwya up in the air (depends on their mood I guess, or what the market says, sort of like Airline seat pricing)

That said, having shot the SP2022 side by side with the HK P30, I can honestly say that they wind up right at equal.

SP2022 has some features that are better, HK has some that are better. But in both cases are all of them and they are pretty close.

I would say that the HK grip is simply superior feel. Doesn't seem to effect how I shoot either gun but I do like the HK grips period.

The Sig gets you and awfully good gun at a good price (if you like the DA/SA operation).
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:18 AM   #44
dave9969
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ya know
this debate comes around about once a month here about full size 9mms

Normally I would just tell you get the sig pro 2022
its an amazing gun and well below the price point you wanted
most days its 400 bucks out the door, use the other 200 for holster and extra magazines, you wouldnt go wrong
you can find the magazines a lot cheaper than On line big gun stores like buds and CCDN. I can get them for mine at the gun shows for 25-35 bucks normally. You just need to find a place you get a fair deal from. They have a second party maker also that has a 17 round mag as well, its not sig but its just as good. They are usually 20 bucks so you really can't bitch too much about the one mag that comes in the 2022 case for 400 bucks.

the CZ 75 is a great gun to
the CLONES of it are even better on occasion.

The IWI baby eagle II for example
you will spend in the mid 550 range for one
great guns
has a safety, a de-cocker on the slide
hand fit on the slide if you get one made in Israel
truly an excellent gun.

both of these have polymer frames and stainless steel slides
both are excellent guns

any of the CZ 75s or the clones of them should be on your list to look at if you really want to shoot this thing
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:24 AM   #45
bitttorrrent
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The sig pro 2022 was not even on my radar.

Does it compare to the 226 on equal basis?

I will have to check it out! Thanks.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:29 AM   #46
dave9969
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the 226 is more of an upscale pistol
the price is average of 800 or more for it
they are very nice

the Sig Pro 2022 is a great gun
but its more entry level at the 400 dollar mark
however its my personal belief that we will not see the 2022
stay at 400 long. Its really a better gun than the price shows.
They made it before as the 2009, but it got dropped because it came with 2 mags and the price point was not moving then. In all fairness though it was more of an economy of the time than the gun. nothing was selling well.
at 400 dollars the 2022 is one of my personal favorite guns
it shoots excellent its dead on with the sights that are ADJUSTABLE
unlike many cheaper pistols
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Old October 7, 2012, 09:10 AM   #47
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Maybe its just me but I think a lot of the guns being listed are not "full sized" 9mms. For me a "full sized" 9mm means a barrel of 4" or longer. So guns like the P229/SP2022/FNX/FNP/G19 IMHO do not qualify.

There are so many good ones on the market it is hard to pick a bad one really. Just look around shoot as many and you can before you buy and enjoy. From there simply rinse wash and repeat because you can never have only one...

That said if I could have only one it would be this one...

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Old October 7, 2012, 09:53 AM   #48
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Beretta

I own several full size 9mms. I don't own the Beretta but I have fired it and it is about the smoothest firing 9mm I've ever used. Slide feels like it's on roller bearings and recoil recovery is very quick.
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Old October 7, 2012, 10:48 AM   #49
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Quote:
You know like when a mechanic tells you never buy a Yugo . No need to listen to that idiot he never owned one
Thats because he knew better! Always listen to your mechanic.

The Beretta is good. Nice and heavy which makes it easy to shoot. Good feel and very reliable (except in the sand). The Sig is better. More refined and just overall fits me better. The BHP is the best. Looks and shoots so smooth. Try them out and see which one fits you best. This is, of course, just my opinion which is worth what its worth, and is heavily biased.
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Old October 7, 2012, 11:00 AM   #50
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Do you prefer Striker Fired or Hammer Fired? IMHO the hammer fired SA/DA guns generally have have a lighter/shorter trigger pull, which is typically better for target shooting, all other things being equal. In this class of guns I'd personally recommend the following.
  • FNH FNX-9
  • SIG P229 / P226
  • Beretta 92F / M-9
  • CZ75
  • Browning Hi-Power
If you prefer striker fired guns I would recommend the following
  • S&W M&P9/ M&P9L
  • Ruger SR9
  • FNH FNS-9
  • Glock G17
  • Springfield XDm 4.5

There are also other fine full size 9mm handguns out there, but these are a few of my recommendations.
I would look at what fits into your price range, then go and fire them if you can and at very minimum go handle one to see if it fits your hand well and if you like the trigger feel. I personally bought my FNX-9 with out firing it first. My decision was solely base on feel in my hand and trigger pull. I was not disappointed. It is my favorite 9mm FS hammer gun.

May I add one piece of advice. If you are looking a something like an M&P you might want to consider a 40S&W version simply because you can convert an M&P40 to .357Sig with only a barrel swap and to 9mm with only a barrel swap and mags. Just some food for thought. just do some research and and ask question during you decision making phase.

Last edited by Sinkhole; October 7, 2012 at 11:22 AM.
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