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Old October 1, 2012, 11:35 PM   #1
hopeisnotastrategy
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Remington Express Core-Lokt Accuracy Issues

Just wanted to give a heads up regarding Remington Express Core-Lokt ammunition. To be as fair as possible to Remington, I am specifically speaking of the .243 100 grain version.

My son has a brand new Savage that we took to the range to zero in. The range has professional staff that help with this if requested. My son and I both tried in vain to get any sort of consistent grouping and went to the staff for help. They put the gun on the Lead Sled and asked what kind of ammo we were using. When we showed them the Remington box, both guys said that they had more issues with that ammo at the range than any other. They took two shots with the lead sled and the two ended up a full 7 inches from each other!

They then used a premium Federal ammo and got two shots within an inch. We used 2 Hornady rounds and same result. They zeroed the rifle for us and said to my boy, "It's not your shootin' son! It's the ammo."

I just wanted to give a heads up to anyone else that was like me and enticed by the low price of the box. It's ended up costing me more because I bought several boxes that I now will not use. Lesson learned on using quality ammo from the start.
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Old October 2, 2012, 12:06 AM   #2
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Wow thats pretty bad! I have no experience with that round, but their 30-06 corelokt is very dependable, for those that may be deterred from the brand based on your experience.

Thanks for the heads up though.


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Old October 2, 2012, 12:39 AM   #3
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I experience a lot of inconsistency in certain lots of core lokt ammo.. You are not alone..
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Old October 2, 2012, 04:56 AM   #4
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Feel free to send the unwanted Remington ammo to me. I'll give it a good home.
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:09 AM   #5
Joe Chicago
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I am surprised to hear that. I have been hunting and shooting with CoreLokt for years and it has always been accurate and downed the deer. Did you try CoreLokt with a different bullet weight?
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:12 AM   #6
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Next time try the Winchester "grey box" 100 grainers. they're pretty consistant.
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Old October 2, 2012, 09:53 AM   #7
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my gun seems to hate corelokts too, I had a horrible time as a kid trying to do anything with it but since corelokts were always what walmart had on hand for the cheapest, that's what I always shot, one day they had federal powershok 100grs for cheaper than corelokts so I figured I'd try them out, that range trip was the first time I was able to get a 3 shot group inside the bullseye at 100 yards and I never bought corelokts again.
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Old October 2, 2012, 06:43 PM   #8
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My Ruger 77 shoots coreloks (and most anything else) well inside of an inch at 100 yards. And they've killed everything I've shot with them. None have gone over 10 yards. Lot doesn't matter either. They always work fine.

Here are two targets, both 3 shot groups using factory coreloks in my Ruger 77 Mk II all-weather .300 Win Mag. The difference in groups was in regard to how I was shooting that day.



Attached Images
File Type: jpg corelok1.jpg (30.2 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg corelok2.jpg (37.8 KB, 144 views)

Last edited by warbirdlover; October 4, 2012 at 09:52 AM.
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Old October 2, 2012, 07:26 PM   #9
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Corelokts, like most standard factory stuff, shoots into 2" or less in my experience. That's been in my 280, 7mmRM, 308, and '06.
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Old October 2, 2012, 08:43 PM   #10
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I've tried to get my 6.5x55 to shoot Corelokts a few times and it always ends in disaster. My handloads will group 1" @ 100yds but Corelokts I'm lucky if I can keep them all on the paper. I have come to the conclusion that I need to keep a minimum of 200 rounds of handloads on hand for that rifle incase I get in a bind and can't load for a while. Unfortunately the Corelokts seem to be the only ammo available locally for the 6.5x55.

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Old October 2, 2012, 09:30 PM   #11
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I've used core-lokts in .308 and .30-06 for 40 years now. Except for a Ruger 77 RSI I have would average +/- 3" with it, my other guns give consistent sub 2" groups. My current .308 is holding 1.25" on average with handloads using core-lokts.
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Old October 3, 2012, 12:13 AM   #12
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It isn't "the ammo". It's the bullet weight.

Even some 1:9" twist .243s have trouble stabilizing long bullets like the 100 gr Core-Lokt. Don't blame the brand or ammunition, other than the bullet in that particular load.

Pick up a box of the Remington 80 gr SPs or HPs if you can get them in your area. I'd be willing to bet they'll group just as well as, or better than, any other non-premium factory ammo.

I am absolutely NOT a fan of "economy"-grade ammo.... with the exception of Remington Core-Lokts. The . stuff . just . shoots in nearly any rifle.
The rest of it (Winchester Power Points, Federal Game-Shock / Fusion, etc.) is a waste of money.


Also keep in mind that it's a brand new rifle. As barrels break in and actions settle into their stocks, performance and accuracy will change. (Velocity, point of impact, and group size.)
It's quite possible that the rifle is running "slow" right now, with lower than expected velocities. As it breaks in, the velocities may come up enough to allow long (heavy) bullets to stabilize better.
So, you may be able to use those extra boxes, down the road.

For the time being, avoid 100+ gr bullets and long, slender 95 gr bullets.
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Old October 3, 2012, 07:25 AM   #13
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We've been loading Speer GS 100 grainers for my Daughter's Savage .243 for 10 years with good(but not great) accuracy. I was willing to give up one hole groups for the performance advantage of the GS. Last year I loaded some Nosler solid base 100 gr but didn't see much diff in accuracy. Her Savage is just a 1"-1.5" shooter with 100 grainers regardless of load or brand.
Other Savage 243's I have are pretty good using 90-95 grain Nosler BT but I haven't shot them much with anything else. I tend to find one "good enough" load and stick with it.
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Old October 3, 2012, 09:40 AM   #14
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Mobuck what is your load for the 95 grn Ballistic-Tip?
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Old October 3, 2012, 12:42 PM   #15
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I'll agree it is probably the bullet, but not because it won't stablize in your rifle. The Remington 100 grain core lokt bullet isn't any longer than the average cup and core 100 grain bullet. I bought a bunch of 150 grain core lokt bullets to shoot in my .300 Savage rifle. Couldn't get anything to group better than 3". After I went throught the normal things like checking the scope and mounts out, I tried some Sierra's in 150 grain and printed several groups less than 1.5 and a few less than 1".

So the only thing I did different was change the bullet, used the same powder, primer, case, and seated to the same lenght. So on further investigation I weighted the bullets, there is a huge variation in bullet weight and these were all from the same lot. My bullets weighted anywhere from 147-152 grains, so I seperated them by .5 grain graduations. Loaded a few up and shot them POI would shift but they grouped pretty much around 1-1.5". The Core Lokt isn't a bullet I'll be buying for reloading again.

I had a buddy who rebarreled his sons .243 Win and bought the Core Lokt bullets to reload to break in the barrel. Had the same problem, nothing would group better than an 1" on a blue printed action with custom barrel. I told him to weight his bullets and he found a pretty wide variation in weights as well. It wasn't as large as mine, but when he sorted by weight the grouped okay as well, nothing spectacular but well enough he wasn't thinking of taking the rifle back to the smith.

I don't normally weigh bullets ever, but because of this problem I've weighed a few hundred Sierra, Nosler, and Hornady bullets. I've never found them to have more than one grain difference usually around .5 grains from what they are supposed to weigh in a box of 100 bullets. I don't know who makes the Core Lokt bullet for Remington but they don't have the same standard of QC other bullet makers have.
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Old October 3, 2012, 04:01 PM   #16
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Looking at the answers, it is probably the barrel. I also have a .243 99' Savage and I did not want to reload. I bought "The big Three" to find a box of hunting ammo. I could not believe how bad the Winchester and Federal shot. 7" to 8" groups at 100 yards. I tried the Remington and it came right in. The Winchester and Federal were way hotter. I could tell by the "Stickey" extraction. Some guns are just finicky about ammo.
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Old October 3, 2012, 05:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
I had a buddy who rebarreled his sons .243 Win and bought the Core Lokt bullets to reload to break in the barrel. Had the same problem, nothing would group better than an 1" on a blue printed action with custom barrel. I told him to weight his bullets and he found a pretty wide variation in weights as well. It wasn't as large as mine, but when he sorted by weight the grouped okay as well, nothing spectacular but well enough he wasn't thinking of taking the rifle back to the smith.
You can't go comparing accuracy of reloads to factory ammo, especially in a new rifle. If you want to go down that path, I have an experience 100% opposite yours -- where my squared-and-trued .243 was printing groups smaller than 0.5" at 100 yards, within 15 rounds of the first shot down that barrel. (excluding the single test load fired by the gunsmith.) Untested reloads, factory ammo... everything. ...including factory loaded 100 gr Core-Lokts.

Every barrel reacts differently.
Every reload is different.
Reloads are not factory ammo.

As far as weight deviation goes....
Right around 3% is the industry standard for anything but premium bullets. With a 100 gr Core-Lokt, that means you'll see about 98.5 gr to 101.5 gr.
With a 150 gr Core-Lokt, that means you'll see about 147.7 gr to 152.3 gr.

But, even some premium bullets will still see deviation around 3%. Right now, I'm shooting an average group of 0.490" at 100 yards with 140 gr Nosler Partitions in .270 Winchester. They weigh 137.5 to 143 gr. (Nearly 4% deviation.)


Quote:
I don't know who makes the Core Lokt bullet for Remington but they don't have the same standard of QC other bullet makers have.
Remington makes them for Remington.



Some rifles just don't like certain loads.


In this case, I still think it's a stabilization issue, though.....
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Old October 3, 2012, 06:36 PM   #18
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I don't shoot factory ammo but I do shoot bulk Rem bullets


I got 1000 of the 6mm 100gr and 80gr HP and after reading Taylorce1 post I went out and weight 30 of the 100gr. I got one bullet that bullet that weight 99.9gr next bullet was 100.1gr and the rest of the 28 bullet most heavy was 100.9grs. Next 30 I weight was 270 cal 130gr bullet. again had one bullet that weight 129.9gr and only heaviest was 132.1gr. I weight 30 cal 150gr only one weighted 149.7gr and heaviest was 152.6gr next I weighted 30 cal 165gr had one bullet that weight 164.2gr heaviest 165.9gr next was 30 cal 180gr lightest was 179.3gr heaviest 180.6gr. I've got some 7mm 150gr lightest was 149.6gr heavy was 151.7gr.

I had one rifle that didn't like the Rem 6.5 bullet it was little long throated for the VLD bullets was part of the problem plus them being FB didn't help.

I know there was talk maybe 7/8yrs ago about 2nd's from Rem in the bulk bullets and I sure watched what I was buying at that time.

I've gotten bullets that flat don't shoot in my rifles and I'm not about to waste my time weight/sorting and barrel wear trying to get them to shoot when their is other choices. Just because they don't shot in my rifle doesn't mean they won't in someone else rifle.
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Old October 3, 2012, 09:12 PM   #19
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My 243 80 gr CLs shoot very good. They are handloads, each charge weighed and set about 25 thousands from the leade.
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:16 AM   #20
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Almost every rifle in my house shoots some weight of a Remington Core-lokt very well, the only two rifles that don't care for it are both .243 winchester, and they love that Winchester "grey-box" 100 grainers. So in my load developement I used Sierra Gamekings in 100 grn, and Winchester Supreme 780, The rifle I developed this load for shoots them into a real small group at 100 yds.
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Old October 4, 2012, 09:34 AM   #21
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Never cared for Remington ammo. I use it for breaking in barrels or fouling a clean bore. I got 3in groups at 100yds with 140gr .260 core lokts and .244in groups with my handloads. It is not quality ammo by any stretch.
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Old October 6, 2012, 11:43 PM   #22
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I sent a 180 grain CoreLokt from a 24" barreled 30-06 over the chrono today...for a fouling shot...it only registered 2,599 fps...pitiful.

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Old October 7, 2012, 07:44 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgerunner665
I sent a 180 grain CoreLokt from a 24" barreled 30-06 over the chrono today...for a fouling shot...it only registered 2,599 fps...pitiful.
Not to jack the thread, but that looks about right for a 180 grain bullet out of the .30-06.

In the .243, my Savage stabilizes 100 grain bullets just fine, it's when I get up to the 105-107 grain weights that I start getting into stabilization problems. I admit that I've never fired any factory ammo through the little rifle, so I have no experience with Remington Core-Lokt ammo in that caliber, but my rifle likes 100 grain bullets. Nothing fancy, just plain ol' cup and core bullets. My current reload uses the Hornady #2453 and Reloder 22 powder



From a pencil-barrel Savage that's bone stock, I don't see anything at all wrong with that group. I've thought about snatching the barrel out, replacing it with a heavier contour, but never seem to get around to it.
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Old October 7, 2012, 07:55 AM   #24
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Quote:
You can't go comparing accuracy of reloads to factory ammo, especially in a new rifle. If you want to go down that path, I have an experience 100% opposite yours -- where my squared-and-trued .243 was printing groups smaller than 0.5" at 100 yards, within 15 rounds of the first shot down that barrel. (excluding the single test load fired by the gunsmith.) Untested reloads, factory ammo... everything. ...including factory loaded 100 gr Core-Lokts.

Every barrel reacts differently.
Every reload is different.
Reloads are not factory ammo.

As far as weight deviation goes....
Right around 3% is the industry standard for anything but premium bullets. With a 100 gr Core-Lokt, that means you'll see about 98.5 gr to 101.5 gr.
With a 150 gr Core-Lokt, that means you'll see about 147.7 gr to 152.3 gr.

But, even some premium bullets will still see deviation around 3%. Right now, I'm shooting an average group of 0.490" at 100 yards with 140 gr Nosler Partitions in .270 Winchester. They weigh 137.5 to 143 gr. (Nearly 4% deviation.)

FrankenMauser
I agree with this. I think the rifle makes all the difference.
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Old October 7, 2012, 08:46 AM   #25
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I still say it is the bullet, they didn't work as handloads in my .300 Savage with 150 grain until I sorted them by weight to get 1-1.5" groups. I tried .270 150 grain factory ammunition in a TC Venture rifle shot right at 1.5" groups. I also tried 140 grain 7-08 ammuniton in a Stevens 200 and it grouped no better than 2".

In fact the only factory Remington ammunition that has ever grouped well for me is the 200 grain .35 Whelen load, both of my Whelens will do less than 1" for three shots with it. The only reason I bought the Whelen amunition is that one day I walked into Dicks and they had it on sale for $9.99 a box so I bought all 200 rounds and all the boxes were from the same ammunition lot.

I don't care if if 3% is standard deviation or not for bullet manufacturing. I'm not going to use Remington Core Lokt bullets for reloading or in factory ammunition for anything other than plinking. It just not worth it to me, and it isn't a big jump in price to step up to a Sierra, Speer, Nosler, or Hornady cup and core bullet and I've never had the problems finding a good group with theses bullets that the Remington bullet gave me.
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