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Old September 24, 2012, 03:29 PM   #1
Tucker 1371
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M1A EBR build

Hey all, my first post in quite some time. I am looking into modernizing my M1A and I've almost got it all figured out... But not quite.

After thoroughly researching all my options I've decided to go with a VLTOR stock. Everything else was either too heavy (McMillan, JAE, Sage) complicated (Blackfeather RS, getting it here AND installing it), expensive (McCann CF stock is cool but $900 is a no go), or just uglier than a bag full of @**holes (Troy).
Here's what I've decided on so far:

Drop in the VLTOR stock, toss the VLTOR Emod butt and pistol grip, replace with Magpul MOE stock and MIAD grip, top it off with an ARMS-18 mount and my EOTech 552.

I also want to put a Magpul AFG on it and here's where I'm hitting a wall. I won't put a cluster rail up front, too expensive and too heavy. Who knows of a way to put a rail that runs directly underneath where the top rail is on a Scout squad?

Also I'm open to any suggestions I haven't already ruled out (see above) especially if they cut weight or cost.
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Last edited by Tucker 1371; September 24, 2012 at 04:23 PM.
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Old September 24, 2012, 08:14 PM   #2
Jo6pak
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I went with a Vltor modstock on my M1A scout several years ago, for much of the same reasons you mentioned.
I dont' really think there is enough clearance on the underside of the forend for mounting a long rail. Maybe, but it seems pretty tight between the inisde of the stock and the working bits.

The Vltor stock does not come with a top heat shield or a forward sling mount (At least mine didn't.)

I installed this short rail/sling point; which works quite well for my needs. Gives me room to mount a bipod if desired.
http://www.fulton-armory.com/front-s...tic-stock.aspx

Since the Vltor stocks are built form GI fiberglass stocks, maybe you could pick up one of those cheap to do a little R+D?
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Old September 25, 2012, 10:34 AM   #3
Tucker 1371
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Thanks Jo, the R&D tinkering around idea sounds good, might try it with the springfield synthetic stock it's in right now. I'm not a master tinkerer or gunsmith so how would you go about cutting a hole to install a rail section?

McMillan has a full length rail they market as an accessory to their MFS-14 stock ,http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-st...ccessories.php I'm guessing it just mounts in where the web sling would go on a normal stock but I don't know if the VLTOR has that since theyre pushing the CASV so hard.
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D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Last edited by Tucker 1371; September 25, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old September 25, 2012, 12:08 PM   #4
SR420
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What does the Modstock weigh with a Magpul MOE stock and MIAD grip?

There are 5 variants of the SAGE EBR, 4 of them are available to the public.
The one that best compares to the Vltor Modstock is the M14ALCS/CV and
it is the lightest SAGE EBR chassis with a pistol grip.

The better known Mod 1 is the heavier version of the M14ALCS/CV.


I think that you will find the Vltor and M14ALCS/CV (picture) weigh about the same
when set up with the same kit and this weight includes the EBR's cluster rail.




.
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Last edited by SR420; September 25, 2012 at 09:59 PM.
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Old September 29, 2012, 09:53 PM   #5
Tucker 1371
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Had to do some internet research and number crunching but as far as I can tell it's about 9.3 lbs with an ARMS mount and unloaded mag. Either way the Sage is a little expensive for my liking.

I emailed McMillan and apparently the MFS-14 weighs a maximum of 2.6 lbs. When added to the 5.9lb M1A Scout action that would make a 8.5lb rifle and it's only slightly more expensive than the VLTOR.

Does anyone have any experience with this stock? Does it HAVE to be bedded?
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REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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Old October 2, 2012, 12:46 PM   #6
SmokyBaer
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Like you GSU, I went thru a bunch of decision making before finding my favorite stock...
a laminated E2 from LAW483.com



Scroll down thru the page and see all his options...
http://www.law483.com/id56.html

Tony also has one for sale so you dont have to get on a waiting list...
http://m14forum.com/px/122441-trades...our-rifle.html

Weight about the same as a walnut and sometimes feels lighter because of the grip angle.
It fits me good and shoots better now. That's what sold me on the E2 that LAW483 builds.
I ordered a second one and it should arrive sometime this month. It's an olive laminate.
The one thing he is set up for now is shipping your rifle directly to him for a quality bedding job.
Then he sends it directly back to your doorstep.

Anyways, for another option, hope that helps.

.

Last edited by SmokyBaer; October 2, 2012 at 01:03 PM.
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Old October 2, 2012, 01:16 PM   #7
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Owning a LAW483 laminate stock has been on my wish list for some time.
Tony's new custom fitting service makes them even more desirable.
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Old October 3, 2012, 04:18 PM   #8
Tucker 1371
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Thanks SmokyBaer and SR420,

The laminated wood stock looks beautiful. However I'm really looking for the adjustable LOP for two reasons. One is it's difficult to shoulder and get a good cheek weld with my hunting jacket on. The second is my girlfriend who will be using the same rifle to hunt with me this season needs an adjustable LOP just to shoot it with a Tshirt on. I'm 5'7" and she's 4'10"

Guess I should have included that requirement in the OP, my bad there guys
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REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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Old October 3, 2012, 07:49 PM   #9
Jo6pak
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The VLTOR Modstock is also adjustable for height, allowing a good cheek weld regardless of sight options.

Not sure if this is possible with the Sage or McMillian stocks
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Old October 4, 2012, 07:52 AM   #10
SR420
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Quote:
GSUeagle1089 Thanks SmokyBaer and SR420,

The laminated wood stock looks beautiful.
However I'm really looking for the adjustable LOP for two reasons.
Then I go back to my original recommendation, the SAGE M14ALCS/CV.




Another option may be the new Blckfeather RS... mine should arrive within the week.
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Old October 4, 2012, 10:52 AM   #11
Tucker 1371
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What does the Sage go for and what is availability like?

I know M14.ca is cranking out Blackfeather RSs (BFRS?) at a decent rate and $600 isn't bad but for the price, wait time, and hassle with the ATF I'd rather go with the McMillan MFS-14. I read through the installation instructions and it seems like there's some room for error to jack up my M1A with the BFRS. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've just never tried my hand at any kind of gunsmithing and it seems well out of my comfort zone.

I'll consider the Sage if the price and availability are right and if it falls in the 9.2-9.5lb range bare naked (unloaded, no optics).

I'm leaning toward the MFS-14 but it won't be here in time for deer season and McMillan says the action lugs have to be bedded. It also doesn't come with buffer tube and buttstock bringing the total to about $650 before I take it to get bedded or buy an ARMS mount. McMillan sells a $23 bedding kit but I'll admit I have NO idea how to do this myself. Can anyone educate me on this?

The only upsides I see to the VLTOR now are that it's cheaper, quicker, and easier than every other option but in my experience this leaves me wishing I had been more patient and willing to spend a little more.
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REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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Old October 4, 2012, 11:07 AM   #12
SR420
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Quote:
GSUeagle1089

I know M14.ca is cranking out Blackfeather RSs (BFRS?) at a decent rate and $600 isn't bad but for the price, wait time, and hassle with the ATF I'd rather go with the McMillan MFS-14. I read through the installation instructions and it seems like there's some room for error to jack up my M1A with the BFRS. Correct me if I'm wrong, I've just never tried my hand at any kind of gunsmithing and it seems well out of my comfort zone.
I am going to remove the QCB-16 pictured above in the SAGE M14ALCS/CV and install it in the BFRS when it arrives... I'll post my findings here.



Quote:
GSUeagle1089

I'll consider the Sage if the price and availability are right and if it falls in the 9.2-9.5lb range bare naked (unloaded, no optics).
That weight requirement is achievable with a standard weight barrel, especially if you use a Magpul CTR butt stock or one that is as light or lighter. Clyde Armory would be the first place I would check for a SAGE M14ALCS/CV
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Old October 4, 2012, 03:52 PM   #13
Tucker 1371
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Thanks for the attention you've been giving this thread everyone, not trying to step on anyone's toes or completely disregard anyone's suggestions.

SR420, did a little more checking up on the Sage and I could not find the ALCS/CV at Clyde's, the cheapest I can find it is for $699 from desert warrior products. That puts my total build cost at roughly $930. Includes MOE stock and ARMS 18 mount but not shipping. Little high for my liking.

Total build cost for the MFS-14 is $838.88. That includes the $23 bedding kit from McMillan, a buffer tube, an MOE stock, and an ARMS 18 mount. Not sure about shipping. I'd have to wait 3-4 months as well. This is also assuming I can learn to correctly bed the action myself...

Total build cost for the VLTOR is approximately $800.80 includes MOE stock, ARMS 18 mount, and shipping. It's the quickest and cheapest but I have a sinking feeling I may end up dissatisfied with it.
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D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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Old October 4, 2012, 06:11 PM   #14
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First off SR420 is a great resource.

Secondly 800-930 really isn't that big of a difference if you like the pricier one. Save another month or even 3 if that's what it takes.

I really want a mod1 with a loaded springer, just the cost for both at once is high.
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Old October 4, 2012, 07:06 PM   #15
Tucker 1371
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Quote:
First off SR420 is a great resource.
Never said he wasn't, this is definitely my first rodeo as far as tinkering around with the M1A/M14 goes. I never meant to slight anyone so I apologize if that's the way I came off.

Quote:
Secondly 800-930 really isn't that big of a difference if you like the pricier one. Save another month or even 3 if that's what it takes.
I'm just not wild about it; it seems like paying more for the same to me. Im not knocking the Sage, I'm sure it is phenomenal, it just doesn't seem to fit my wants/needs, especially for the price.

I apologize if I wasted anyone's time but I think I've decided on the MFS-14 from McMillan. The price is right, their warranty seems good, and the weight is right where I want it. I have a friend who is an apprentice gunsmith who can bed the action for free. Plus I can get it in OD green. Will post pics in 3 to 4 months.
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NCO of Marines, 3rd Award Expert Rifle, 236 KD Range
D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
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Old October 4, 2012, 08:30 PM   #16
Jo6pak
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No waste of time at all. What's a forum for if not to share information.

My main reasons for going with the VLTOR was also price and ease of installation. It fits my needs perfectly and I'm quite pleased with it, no regrets.

Interested to see the pics and review once everything is installed
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Last edited by Jo6pak; October 4, 2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old October 5, 2012, 06:56 AM   #17
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No worries, it's all good
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