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Old September 23, 2012, 06:07 PM   #26
gaseousclay
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There's the problem, we run and hide and are afraid to let a kid hold a gun. Legal action? When my kids were young every one of their friends got to handle guns at my house. Some got to go shooting and hunting with us.
It might be time to grow a set and not go hide in the bedroom.
'You wanna hold this gun, we'll call you Father right now.'
as a gun owner I would be pretty angry if a neighbor allowed my child to handle a gun without my consent. it's about boundaries imo and they shouldn't be crossed
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Old September 23, 2012, 06:14 PM   #27
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You did the right thing and avoided unpleasant repercussions. But as cnimrod, berettaprofessor, Edward429451 suggested, the next step might be to contact their parents (or wait until the next time you see them), and suggest a "firearm safety introduction" that includes holding the rifle.

If you mention "The Four Rules" one of the adults is going to ask what those might be - that's your opening. Explain, and point out that demystifying is one of the best ways to satisfy curiosity - their sons are less likely to do something stupid later in their childhood years if they get some reality now. If the parents are liberals, you mention that people need sound information to properly make their own informed choices - can't argue with that.

If the parents go for it and the kids come for the lecture and seem to have a clue what it is about, you now have an opening to suggest a range trip with a .22 rifle for an introduction to marksmanship - single load, single fire, "just like the prone slow fire stage in the National Matches", spoken to give an aura of safety/control, and "respectability".

I'm sorry to babble like this but 1) I'm an old man with no kids to teach and envy your chance to get a couple of youngsters interested in shooting, and 2) it has given me great pleasure to watch a couple of our Junior shooters - specifically two teenage girls whose parents drive them to the matches - climb from Marksman to Sharpshooter and Expert, and one on to Master!

The shooting sports, and the ideas of self-reliance and independent responsible action, are not going to die out if we encourage and support these kids.
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Old September 23, 2012, 07:22 PM   #28
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If you do not know the parents - better safe than sorry
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Old September 23, 2012, 09:17 PM   #29
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Some of you guys are sounding like a defeatist attitude. The world is what you make it. So don't even try to teach the kids anything, or be neighborly because of what they might do? I think this is a poor show my friends. No wonder you feel sad about it, because you know you had a chance to do something real and dropped the ball by not even trying. No offense, but hey.
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Old September 24, 2012, 03:41 AM   #30
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Pretty sad indeed, but I think you made the right call. You don't know if the kids' parents might get upset with you letting them hold a gun w/o their permission.

I definitely miss the good ol' days. When I was a young child I still remember holding a real M16 rifle from one of the soldiers in my hometown. I think this was one of the biggest influences why I like firearms today, particularly AR15's.
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Old September 24, 2012, 04:49 PM   #31
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Not sad at all. Absolutely right and necessary 1956 or today.

Don't anyone give a firearm of any kind, loaded or unloaded, to my kids without my express permission or there will be hell to pay. You did the right thing. It's all about respect and you acted respectfully.

In the words of the Larry Potterfield who happens to personify tradition and family values... "And that's the way it is."

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Old September 24, 2012, 05:30 PM   #32
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So don't even try to teach the kids anything, or be neighborly because of what they might do? I think this is a poor show my friends. No wonder you feel sad about it, because you know you had a chance to do something real and dropped the ball by not even trying

That's silly, man. If the mom has an irrational fear of guns, she may have FREAKED. Maybe called the cops, whatever. Some people are just not cool with guns. He absolutely did the right thing.
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:33 PM   #33
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Don't anyone give a firearm of any kind, loaded or unloaded, to my kids without my express permission or there will be hell to pay

Agree 100%. My own dad started to hand my son a .22 to look at. I intercepted it and said "let's check it first". As my dad was starting to say "it's not load...", I ejected a live round.

My kids, my call. That's it.
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:39 PM   #34
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Anyone else wished that we could live permanently in 1956? Sure, that was way before I was born, but I miss those days My father has similar stories about being young in the late '50's and early 60's and how everyone in small town Idaho where he grew up hunted and fished. How things have changed.
True that, Frasier....

In the late 1960s in Salt Lake City Utah where I finished high school, we showed up to high school with 30-06 rifles and shotguns in our pick-up rear window gun racks. No one stole them, and no one questioned their presence. And, we didn't miss-use them.

Not so much anymore.....
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:53 PM   #35
Jim Watson
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In the FIRST place, there is no way I am going to sit in my yard cleaning a gun in public view. There are just too many Liberal Trained Ninnys who will freak out and too many crooks who would mark me for theft.

My old house required that I carry gun cases to the car in plain view. I wonder if that might not have contributed to a burglary with six guns stolen. (And recovered the next day when the thief wrecked his stolen car.)
The new place lets me load up in the garage.

Sad, though. I well remember riding the city bus to the range with cased Remington 513T in hand. But that was about 1960. As Jeff Cooper said, "The past is a different country, they do things differently there."
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Old September 24, 2012, 05:58 PM   #36
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Im not all that old, though if you saw how broken down I am(former mechanic, now disabled) you would add about 20 years. That being said, even though I live in IL I live in a rural area. When I was in high school the principal would announce the day before deer season started that if we were going to bring out guns to school with us they needed to stay in our trucks(whate most of us drove, lol) or in our cars locked up and unloaded. He then thanked us for our cooperation.

I would like for some of you to guess the decade that this happened in, here in IL. See if anyone can get it right.
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Old September 24, 2012, 06:41 PM   #37
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ljnowell,

Rural Illinois, maybe downstate? If so the 1990s would not surprise me.
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Old September 24, 2012, 11:07 PM   #38
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ljnowell,

Rural Illinois, maybe downstate? If so the 1990s would not surprise me.
Yep you hit the nail right on the head Bobcat! I had a friend who was a few years behind me, he told me that after the Columbine incident they put a stop to it. Its a real shame to be honest, but I guess it was something that was going to happen no matter what. I remember our shop teacher going squirrel hunting with some of us after school too, I can imagine that a school district would fire a teacher for going hunting with students after school nowadays. Like I said, I'm not that old, but I'm old enough to know what used to be and miss it.

My son is lucky though, at 12 years old he goes shooting with his teacher twice a week and is allowed to have a gun at school. He is homeschooled.
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:29 AM   #39
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Ah, the good old days. I recall back in 1959 when I was in high school, I found a junkyard with a lot of cut-up .50 BMGs, and I bought a couple to play with. When I got home with them, a neighbor, WWII vet, saw me trying to take one of them apart, walked over, and showed me the correct way to disassemble a .50HB. We worked on that gun several days, removed everything, cleaned up all the parts and ground smooth the cut in the side plate, and reassembled it.

Well, at one point a couple of years later (This is all pre-1968 amnesty, OK?) I took a welding class and decided to weld up the gun and see if it would function. Did that, ground off the extra material, cold blued the weld, and got the gun into working condition and took it out to the sand pit one weekend with my dad and shot it. I registered that gun during the '68 amnesty. That really got me interested in automatic weapons, and I'm still collecting them.

I wonder if any of that would/could happen these days?
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:07 AM   #40
Edward429451
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Nobody's going to call the cops over a neighborly invite. What would the charge be? Menacing kindness? LOL. If the mom was overly irrational like you purport and starts freaking out, you simply say sorry, I wont bring it up again, and leave. If she calls the cops she will show herself to be irrational to them.

You scared she'll lie to the cops? Do it in front of the kids so they can witness.

This really is the age of the ninny, like Cooper said.
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:58 AM   #41
Chuckusaret
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How sad. I grew up in a small Mississippi town on the Gulf Coast in the 1950's. A neighbor shooting a handgun/rifle would not have aroused our attention; we all had a rifle/shotgun or two and could also shoot, when ever, in our back yard.
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Old September 27, 2012, 02:31 PM   #42
Goldy
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Sad it is.

In 1959 a neighbor boy and I would put our rifles in the basket on our bikes and ride through town on our way to the dump to shoot rats. No one ever gave us a second look. I bought that rifle from an old man on my paper route for $9. Of course he had to get the O.K. from my dad. I've still got it.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:20 PM   #43
Edward429451
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He absolutely did the right thing.
Agreed, because no parent was present. I'd be over there inviting them to a bbq so fast that it'd make a ninny dizzy (sic). It's a very neighborly thing to do and We, the People, have no one but ourselves to depend on, and it's good to make friends and help your fellow man.

I counter your paranoia of she might freak, with how do you know that they aren't at this minute considering getting their first gun for home protection or the poor political climate? Just like aaron takes newbies shooting from his work and watering hole, we all must make an effort to be friendly and helpful and kind (don't forget to smile). Just be cool and make an effort. They're not going to throw you in jail! Oh my Gosh...

Quit being a scaredy cat and go invite them to dinner. Don't just knock on the door and say hey can I let your kid shoot my gun. Then you might freak them out. Be neighborly about it.
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Old September 29, 2012, 03:01 AM   #44
Peptobismol9
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I let the neighbor children look at my guns. But the neighbors are all blood relatives. They can just as well go in the kitchen and get something to eat or use the computer. I suspect their mom doesn't appreciate it, but she said it's okay. As long as I have legal consent, I won't deprive the chirren' of a proper and safe education on firearms. Hell. As much as they ask me about guns, they probably know as much as a lot of grown men.
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Old September 30, 2012, 05:10 PM   #45
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I grew up in the late 50s and 60s and if a neighbor had let me handle a firearm my Mom would have been very upset with him. Of course I would have been thrilled and wouldn't have told her about it! Of course you did the right thing, especially if you didn't really know the kids well, no matter what decade it is.
This also reminds me of what my buddy told me about when he was a 12 year old kid and him and his friends would stop by a hardware store on a Saturday morning and buy a box of .22s and they would head down the street. All of them would be carrying their trusty .22 rifles, can you imagine if four twelve year old boys did that today? Someone would call 911 and it would make the evening news!
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Old September 30, 2012, 05:41 PM   #46
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I grew up in the late 60s/early 70s. I recall being about 9 or 10 years old. My parents were pretty anti-gun but they at least let me have a BB gun but would never let me around real guns. A neighbor of ours had an old Marlin semi-auto .22. It was broken so he discarded the entire bolt and internals, it was just an empty receiver, barrel and stock, and gave it to me. I showed it to my parents and showed them that is was totally non-functional and they let me keep it to play Army with.

I was the envy of the other kids in the neighborhood but looking back on it, I knew how to treat my BB gun as far as gun safety but it probably wasn't wise to let me run around with a real (non-functioning) .22, having pretend shootouts with my friends who had plastic M16s. Imagine if a cop would have seen me from a distance. Nothing ever happened though, I kept it to our front and backyard, didn't carry it around the neighborhood.
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Old October 1, 2012, 11:07 AM   #47
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Taking the current nanny-state in stride, you might want to go next door and tell the parents about showing the gun to the boys before the kids tell them:

"Hey mom, I saw Mr Dorf in his backyard with a gun and he showed it to me"... then she loses it and calls the police about a madman with an arsenal next door turning her sons into little infidels.

It is sad indeed, but you did the right thing... nothing like ****** off neighbors to make life a living hell.
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Old October 3, 2012, 07:14 PM   #48
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In the FIRST place, there is no way I am going to sit in my yard cleaning a gun in public view. There are just too many Liberal Trained Ninnys who will freak out and too many crooks who would mark me for theft.
Some of us did it all the time. I live next to the corner, so when I'm on my deck at the table, I can be seen by anyone that passes the neighbor's side. Didn't bother me, they would have to stop and stare for a while to figure out what I was doing. And if anybody freaked out, I really couldn't care less. The NDN's kid would generally see me and come over to watch, but never asked to handle any guns. Now he has kids of his own and probably teaches them about guns. Now though, when I move out of here, I'll have a decent garage in which to do these things.
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Old October 8, 2012, 10:03 AM   #49
Edward429451
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I'm curious if Amsdorf is playing it safe, or perhaps talked to the parents? He hasn't posted back in awhile. This is a good thread, and provides much food for thought for all.

I'm reminded of something that happened about 5 or 6 years ago, where I used to live. Most of my neighbors were stand offish and pretty much kept to themselves. I rolled up in front home from work and seen the two neighbor boys (6-8 yrs old?) having a shoot-out with toy rifles. One was in his yard with a rifle over the fence, sighting in on his brother who was across the street hiding behind a tree with his rifle. I got out of my truck, and my path around the front of my truck and up my driveway took me into the line of fire. I noticed that both boys went to low ready so as not to sweep me with their muzzles, and the closer boy brought his finger alongside the triggerguard (!).

I immediately felt the rush of pride that a dad feels when his kids do it the right way. I had taught my kids to not point toy guns at non-combatants, and recognized that this is exactly what was going on with these two. The next day I seen their dad outside and just had to go over and shake the mans hand and give him kudos for his kids courteousness, and let him know that they're doing it right. When I said I'd like to talk to him about his kids, he got that worried look on his face, like they did something wrong.

I told him that I just had to shake his hand and say good job with the kids for teaching them the right things, and recounted what happened. Then his face turned to that thoughtful pride look and he cracked a smile. It turned out that dad was a Deputy Sheriff and pretty concerned as to whether he should even let the kids play with toy guns because of (the nanny state). We all went shooting together once, and had a blast. I let the kids shoot my Bearcat and 10/22. Just being neighborly.

The point is that we all need to reach out to others. The nanny state is trying to make gun owners go into the closet like the homosexuals used to be. Resist that! Gun owners are usually good people and as long as we are squeeky clean in our actions and words on the subject, there is no harm in extending friendly invites and conversation to our neighbors and fellow countrymen. More and more people are becoming new gun owners because of the political climate, and it is very important for us to lift these people up a little bit, with friendship, advice, and neighborliness. This strengthens the people and sets the nanny state back. There is minimal risk involved in this if you think about it. All of you fence sitters who have one leg in the closet and are ready to hide are hurting our cause for little reason other than paranoia. Please re-think your position and stand up for yourselves and our country.
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Old October 8, 2012, 11:41 AM   #50
gaseousclay
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The point is that we all need to reach out to others. The nanny state is trying to make gun owners go into the closet like the homosexuals used to be. Resist that! Gun owners are usually good people and as long as we are squeeky clean in our actions and words on the subject, there is no harm in extending friendly invites and conversation to our neighbors and fellow countrymen. More and more people are becoming new gun owners because of the political climate, and it is very important for us to lift these people up a little bit, with friendship, advice, and neighborliness. This strengthens the people and sets the nanny state back. There is minimal risk involved in this if you think about it. All of you fence sitters who have one leg in the closet and are ready to hide are hurting our cause for little reason other than paranoia. Please re-think your position and stand up for yourselves and our country.
I'll reach out to other gun owners and non-gun owners when the political persecution stops. In the meantime, I keep to myself about guns or only converse with fellow gun owners in person that I know aren't rabid Right Wingers trying to label me an anti-gun commie. it's a sad state of affairs when gun owners of all political stripes can't even come together
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