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Old October 3, 2012, 11:33 AM   #26
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS
He had me right up to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Huffington Post
The applicant should be competent in of how to operate a handgun, familiar with the basic rules of gun safety and hold a fundamental understanding of the laws of "deadly force" as well as how they may differ from state to state.
What " basic right" needs a competency requirement?...
Putting aside the question of whether this ought to be a governmental requirement, in my view the responsible gun owner who intends to carry a loaded gun in public will undertake on his own initiative to "...be competent in of how to operate a handgun, familiar with the basic rules of gun safety and hold a fundamental understanding of the laws of "deadly force" as well as how they may differ from state to state...." It may be his right to carry a gun without doing so, at least in some States; but if he makes that choice, I'm sure not going to congratulate him for it.
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Old October 3, 2012, 11:40 AM   #27
Tom Servo
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What " basic right" needs a competency requirement?
If you guys want the federal government to grant nationwide reciprocity, expect competency requirements. Expect them to be pretty expensive and difficult as well.

Like it or not, there is no "right to carry" in the eyes of the government. It's a restricted privilege until the courts say otherwise. I know folks are thinking "it's mah riiiight! It ain't up to the courts!"

But it is up to the courts. That's not how it's supposed to be, but that's where we are right now.
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Old October 3, 2012, 11:42 AM   #28
Frank Ettin
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Originally Posted by drail
The idea that a "license" is required to exercise a clearly defined Constitutional right is the most ridiculous concept I have ever heard. Should the Govt. require you to purchase a license from them to exercise free speech...
Actually, it's well established that government may require permits of licenses to exercise a number of rights protected by the First Amendment, e. g., permit requirements for public assembly. It's settled law that constitutionally protected rights are subject to limited regulation.
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Old October 3, 2012, 12:12 PM   #29
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There is actually a National concealed weapons permit. It's called H.R. 218, Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004. Covers all 50 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and the District of Columbia. Retired officers must qualify annually with the State requirement or the standard used by the Agency that qualifies them with the TYPE of handgun they carry. I do my annuals next week with a Sig P226 9mm & a S&W Mod. 10 38 spl.
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Old October 3, 2012, 12:15 PM   #30
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A wonderful example of citizens being treated unequally.


I am thankful for all that LEO's active and retired have done. But the fact that they get more rights then every other citizen disgusts me.
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Old October 3, 2012, 12:47 PM   #31
hhb
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How many people have you met in public that you sent to prison?
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Old October 3, 2012, 01:07 PM   #32
RedBowTies88
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What in the world does that have to do with the right to carry?


So your job gives people a reason to hate you? Lots of peoples jobs do that. Lots of people have enemies who would wish to cause them harm. Unless Im mising the angle of the argument point here thats null and void as far as I'm concerned.

Again, I'm glad for what officers do..I just dont believe they're entitled to special treatment. We're all american citizens here.. your occupation or former occupation should carry no weight.
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Old October 3, 2012, 03:21 PM   #33
hhb
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Special treatment happens to classes of people all the time. Go to the nearest military base & try to gain admittance to buy commodities at the exchange, px or commissary at the prices active & retired do w/o paying sales tax. Retired military pays zip for medical care once eligible for S/S. Have a friend that's a retired reservist that had a 5 bypass and chemo for Cancer for 2 years with NO out of pocket expense all because he's being treated differently than those that aren't retired military.

Last edited by hhb; October 3, 2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old October 3, 2012, 04:56 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hhb
There is actually a National concealed weapons permit. It's called H.R. 218, Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004. Covers all 50 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, and the District of Columbia. Retired officers must qualify annually with the State requirement or the standard used by the Agency that qualifies them with the TYPE of handgun they carry. I do my annuals next week with a Sig P226 9mm & a S&W Mod. 10 38 spl.
No. That's LEOSA, not a "National concealed weapons permit."

Quote:
Originally Posted by hhb
How many people have you met in public that you sent to prison?
As a (traffic court) prosecutor, I do send a few folks a week to jail. My buddies over in the local Prosecuting Attorney's office send bunches of folks to prison, and most of those attorneys carry regularly. None of them will be "qualified law enforcement officers" because they lack statutory arrest authority.
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Old October 3, 2012, 05:06 PM   #35
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hhb, medical care was a recruiting tool for the military, that Congress constantly tries to undercut. It was something promised, that is being kept to lesser and lesser degree.

Same with commissary benefits.

LEOSA was not something you were promised, it was not a recruiting device, and is not comparable.

If you want to make comparisons, then compare with old-school corporate pension plans.

Meanwhile, cops put people in jail.

Repo men take people's cars.

Older brothers and fathers run off guys they don't want around their sisters or daughters.

Loan officers refuse financing for homes; banks have late payers evicted.

Lots of people make enemies.

I like cops well enough, but don't feel you rate higher privileges than the rest of us. In fact, in this instance, I think it's in direct opposition to what the framers intended.
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Old October 3, 2012, 05:09 PM   #36
Nnobby45
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The idea that a "license" is required to exercise a clearly defined Constitutional right is the most ridiculous concept I have ever heard. Should the Govt. require you to purchase a license from them to exercise free speech or to attend the church of your choice?
An oft stated sentiment.

And there's no CCW until you have a license, or until a State passes a separate law saying you don't need one.

States have rights, also, and can clearly enact laws pertaining to firearms.

What isn't clearly defined, are the amount of restrictions that can be placed on the citizenry. Scalia said in a recent interview that he'll have to "see what happens" with respect to how he'd come down on the matter should it go before the Court.


What we'd better worry about is who's going to be appointing Justices for the next four years, since the rulings by some are not in doubt.

Last edited by Nnobby45; October 3, 2012 at 06:35 PM.
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Old October 3, 2012, 06:32 PM   #37
Glenn E. Meyer
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Cease and desist griping about other employment benefits. I don't think such are in the BOR.

IIRC, national reciprocity was debated at the time of HR218 and not included.

If you don't like HR 218, please tell the next president to repeal it.
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