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Old September 30, 2012, 12:45 PM   #51
jcwit
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If you're concerned about warrenty get the Cabelas #400 tumbler made by Berry's. It made right here in the U.S. except for the motor which no one makes here, and Cabelas gives a lifetime satification quarantee. All for about $50 bucks

Can you beat that!
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Old September 30, 2012, 01:58 PM   #52
Pond, James Pond
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I'm leaning toward the Lyman Twin Turbo. If I can get it sent to someone in the UK, then they can bring it over when they next visit, and save me the shipping costs.

That set up give me the 600 tub that I would use most, but also the 1200 tub in case the situation ever changes and I need more capacity. Otherwise, I'll just settle for the cheaper 600 solo kit...

It seems that the Berry's and TopShot options will be too big for my needs.

Warranty-wise, in the UK, stuff usually comes with 12 months warranty, and EU law actually says that a 2 year warranty is mandatory so strictly speaking the UK should abide to that too. That, at least, makes it a bit less of a gamble!!

Quote:
If you're concerned about warrenty get the Cabelas #400 tumbler made by Berry's. It made right here in the U.S. except for the motor which no one makes here, and Cabelas gives a lifetime satification quarantee. All for about $50 bucks

Can you beat that!
Yeah, but then I'd also have to factor in the $1500 return air-tickets to a city in the US with a Cabela's store in it...

No lifetime guarantee is worth that!!
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Old September 30, 2012, 03:19 PM   #53
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Yeah, but then I'd also have to factor in the $1500 return air-tickets to a city in the US with a Cabela's store in it...

No lifetime guarantee is worth that!!
BULL, our economy needs the money!
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Old September 30, 2012, 11:39 PM   #54
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Isn't it amazing that after over 80 years of reloading, we are just finding out that things won't work unless the brass is really shiny and clean.
Any one ever MEASURE bullet pull force?
Are world records being broken ONLY by perfectly clean brass?
Please, if you want to clean, then clean. Don't try to justify your wants with reloading needs.
30 minutes in 20/40 corn is more than enough. Sometimes there is a residual white ash in the primer pockets and that comes out just as well with a little tumbling as by scrapping primer pockets by hand.
If you do always scrape out the primer pocket, how can you be sure you are NOT changing the primer pocket dimensions and leading to oversized primer pockets.
SS pins looks like a good method, but the whole sifting out pins and such seems like a lot more work than simply tumbling the cases for less than 1 minute to separate out the media.
We all do what we think is important, but don't imply that your wants equal my needs.
This is like the folks who buy a Case Pro rolling sizer for $646 and additional die sets for $180 to save cases that have already been used multiple times. This may make some sort of sense for competitive rifle cases that have been "find tuned," but the unit is only for pistol cases that aren't THAT expensive new and are even cheaper "once-fired."
It may make sense to the person spending the money...
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:08 AM   #55
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Quote:
Isn't it amazing that after over 80 years of reloading, we are just finding out that things won't work unless the brass is really shiny and clean.
First time I've ever heard that things won't work unless the brass is really shiny & clean. However I've learned it much easier to detect cracked necks and other minor defects in brass if it is clean. Also I happen, and I believe this is true with many other reloaders, I like shiny and clean brass just as I like a nicely waxed and shiny car, polished shoes, clean cut pants & shirt, shaved face and a sharp haircut. Nicely kept lawn and house etc., etc. Its called PRIDE!

Quote:
Any one ever MEASURE bullet pull force?
Nope, never have!

Quote:
Are world records being broken ONLY by perfectly clean brass?
Not really positive, but the Bullseye matches held just before the matches held at Camp Perry have been with clean & shiny ammo, some is factory, some are reloads. Its likely the shooters use the same ammo while at Camp Perry.

This is just what I see and in my experience, including what I see used by the National Pistol Champs.

If you or anyone else wishes to use dirty corroded cases, have at it, I guess. I'll look at somewhat as I look at a tidy machine shop doing quality work versus a shop looking like a dump and wondering just how good their work can be.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:23 AM   #56
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i reload 5.56mm NATO exclusively, i decap then put about 300 decapped cases in my Thumlers Tumbler, with a case full of Lemi-Shine, a half full coffee measuring cup of Tide laundry soap and 4 pounds of stainless steel pins, seal it up and tumble for 3 hours, the cases come out factory new looking, the primer pockets are nearly spotless, the interior of the case is as bright as the outside. if trimming is required, i resize then trim with my newly discovered Little Crow Gunworks, WFT trimmer http://www.littlecrowgunworks.com/wft.html
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:39 AM   #57
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I load revolver brass almost exclusively. I only tumble when I think they need it. Simple wipe with paper towel before re-sizing and all is well. I don't touch the inside of the case. Same with primer pocket. Only touch when I think it's needed. I found out years ago that shiny brass doesn't shoot any better than dull brass . Of course all 'scrounged' brass will get tumbled the first time to get any dirt off of them and for inspection.
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Old October 1, 2012, 11:34 AM   #58
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So which would you opt for with my small cleaning volumes?
If you can get it locally, I get the Berry's. It's not that big. Besides, the more media you have churning, the faster it's going to clean, and the longer the media's going to last. The other plus's are you are not going to grow out of it as fast, and you can tumble say bottleneck rifle and pistol together. Just don't tumble sizes that can slip inside each other together, like .9mm and .40 for example. The twin pack would be okay, but I'm not seeing the need or advantage for the second bowl.....gimmicky.

I started with the Lyman Pro Magnum 2500, and I can't for the life of me see any advantage of down sizing. It'll tumble whatever sized load I want. I use 20/40 corn cob with a cap-full of Dillon polish. (any metal polish is fine) My source is the cheapest I could find, Drillspot. You can probably find a similar source (blast media) where you live. I don't like walnut because while it cleans a bit faster it scratches instead of polishes. That's my view.

As for the tumble or not argument going on, Hell, guys, who cares? I loaded for 35 years before I bought my first and only tumbler, and my loads worked fine. Bling, though adds a little candy for my tired eyes, and it's way faster to tumble a 1000 cases than to wipe a 1000 cases....and that there is the reason.....bling is just the gravy on top. Wish I'd bought that tumbler years earlier...........lesson learned. Recently I added a Thumlers Wet Tumbler, and stainless steel media to my tumbler stable. Just because I'm starting to look used these days, at least my brass doesn't have to.....what can I say...bling is a addiction that doesn't hurt you! What ever makes you happy...do your brass THAT way, okay?.
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Old October 1, 2012, 12:29 PM   #59
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It is interesting that some of the folks who do NOT use tumblers seem to feel that they must argue the point about whether they are NECESSARY.

Clearly, many people have loaded for many years without tumbling their brass.

Also, many people have had problems with primers that don't seat well, cases that scratched dies, cases that don't have enough grip on the bullets, and missed defects that lead to case failures on the next firing.

And, some of the people without tumblers go to a lot of extra effort to prevent some of those problems with steps like cleaning primer pockets, washing cases, wiping down cases, polishing cases for inspections, etc.

I did not personally feel the need for a tumbler until I started shooting auto-loaders that throw my brass on the ground. The steps I NEEDED to take to ensure that the grit they picked-up would not scratch my dies or guns got pretty tedious, especially considering how many more cases I use with an auto-laoder than with a revolver or bolt gun.

For grit issues, corn-cob and walnut don't really ensure grit removal. For that matter, neither do ultrasonic cleaners. But, wet tumbling with stainless steel pins seems to remove the grit nicely. And, it removes all the fouling from the inside of the cases and the primer pockets, too. So, by decapping on a cheap Lee "C" press with a universal decapping die and wet tumbling the brass, I can keep my actual reloading equipment (and area) VERY clean. And, I can inspect the brass much more easily, using less time.

The new process is so easy that I sometimes use it for revolver and bolt gun ammo, as well.

BUt, let's not confuse "clean" with "shiny." Even after tumbling with stainless steel pins, some of my brass will have powder burns on the surface. If I want to get rid of those, I need to use some chemicals. My choice is dilluted white vinegar in an ultrasonic bath for a few minutes, followed by a rinse in water with baking soda disolved in it. That makes clean brass look UNSTAINED.

But, it still isn't jewelry-level shiny. For that, I would need to dry tumble in corn cob media with polish added. However, that is the part that I never bother doing.

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Old October 1, 2012, 12:34 PM   #60
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In the past I've always used a vibrator, but still washed my case's, several times to get range dirt off. Then the resizing lube then the tumbling media dust.

Just go the SS media, works great, case's come out like new, just have to rinse after pulling from the drum. Yes each case has to be checked for any pins remaining. But isn't inspection part of the process.
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Old October 1, 2012, 05:32 PM   #61
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WOW--Lets get this tumbeling thing down
Step 1- throw cases in tumbler
step 2- UMMM Take cases out of tumbler
step 3- OH Ya there is no step 3
This is not a labor intensive job here. If you tumble for 20 minutes and i tumble for 4 hrs,whats the difference?. There was no labor on either of us.
Mine will be shiney and new,yours will be clean enough.

Tumbling time is not labor on your side and requires no attention on your behalf.

Those that say it takes to long,,What do you do?. Walk in the door from the range and start loading right away?. I come home,throw my cases in tumbler and start cleaning guns, Maybe grab something to eat,go shopping ect ect. When im ready to load,so are my cases
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Old October 1, 2012, 06:11 PM   #62
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What about the abrasives used for the polishing process. What ever you use walnuts/corn cobs to get the brass shiny again a abrasive has to be used.

The stainless media cleaning is more of a mechanical process.
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Old October 1, 2012, 07:08 PM   #63
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For the OP, you should be happy with the Lyman Twin, if you go that route.Mine has been going since the early nineties and the last couple years I've been running the SS pins in it(ya it's pins in a vibratory unit,tumblers not neccessary). It's going as strong now as it was back then.
As for the to clean or not to clean question. Oh ,I already said what I like. No particular reason or need, just like shinny things.
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Old October 1, 2012, 08:24 PM   #64
jcwit
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What about the abrasives used for the polishing process. What ever you use walnuts/corn cobs to get the brass shiny again a abrasive has to be used.
What about it? Being as I use Liquid Auto Polish that OK to use on my Corvette I'm sure not worring and wringing my hands over using it to clean my brass cases. Priming compounds and powder ash would be more of a problem and I don't worry about those.
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Old October 1, 2012, 09:39 PM   #65
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And on and on it goes.

Quote:
The stainless media cleaning is more of a mechanical process.
Actually there is abrasion and/or chemical cleaning. SS falls on the abrasion side. If you add Lemishine, and Dawn in the water, add chemical to that. When you think about it, even rouge polishes because of microscopic "rocks", that eat and smooth brass. The process of polishing is just making the scratches tinier. So if you Really, Really, want it polished with a tumber, run it 2 hours in a wet Thumlers, dry it, then tumble for 24 hours in rouge charged corncob. Yeah okay a little radical. Ever watch a rock polishing machine.....geeze those guys that do that are patient. Weeks....

Now one more factor. There is a kinda, somewhat, just a little truth, to the argument that tumbling pockets clean, chemical or SS abrasion makes primers go in harder (can you say, "more friction"). It would seem that the primer residue has bit of a lubrication property. Same thing with neck interiors and powder residue.

If that affects your seating methods negatively, just tumble for 5 minutes in pure corncob. You know that fine white stuff that's left? That has lube properties too. That means both bullets and primers go in easier.
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Old October 1, 2012, 10:33 PM   #66
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ive tumbled for looks mainly. some of my brass was multi fired and the soot build up was too much. dont need them perfect but it would help. ive also tumble 223 in larger pet cob and it took maybe 3 hours or 2 to take out all the cob from 300 cases. never never do that again.
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