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Old September 19, 2012, 05:56 PM   #1
Roshi
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Comments on Cimarron 1851 Navy Richards-Mason?

I ordered an 1851 Navy Richards-Mason conversion in .38 Special with 7 1/2 inch barrel directly from Cimarron about a month ago.

It is coming from Uberti to Cimarron to my dealer. Only have another 60 days, if I'm lucky.

Do any of you have one of these? What should I expect? Other than ammo is there anything else I need to get?
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Old September 19, 2012, 07:52 PM   #2
pghrich
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Don't own one but I saw one in gander used rack very beautiful but no way to convert it over to percussion if you ever wanted to. Pghrich
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Old September 19, 2012, 07:55 PM   #3
Roshi
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Thanks!

I never intended to try to convert it back to percussion. I have an 1851 Navy and wanted the conversion to compare the advance in technology. I've never owned or fired a conversion.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:36 AM   #4
U.L.Grant
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I have an older ASM-made 1861 Navy in 44 Colt, a First model Richards Conversion replica. I bought it used but in like-new condition, for 400 bucks at a gun show. It shoots very well and seems to be better metallurgy than most of the cap/ball Italian replicas. The arbor is a much firmer fit, and the wedge/barrel/arbor interface much better steel quality and hardness than a cap/ball, and it doesn't shoot loose like a cheap cap/ball pistol does.

If you want a bomb-proof Colt pattern cap/ball pistol, retrofitting a cartridge conversion would be a roundabout, expensive and difficult way to get one- and not well advised- better options would be get a Centaure Belgian Colt (those have frames machined from forged steel blanks), or one of the Italian replicas in STAINLESS STEEL. Or just give up on the open top Colt design, and go to a Remington replica, or a Ruger Old Army. Uberti also made a Colt 1873 Peacemaker pattern in cap/ball that is interesting and would be strong.

It has been my experience that any of the Italian made Colt open top guns will shoot loose in varying amounts of time, some last longer than others, although Uberti may have finally got it right with true forged steel frames (the info is vague on that). The old brass frame replica Colts are the biggest joke in the shooting world, for actual shooting. A steel arbor threaded into a brass frame, that is being stressed by gunpowder explosions, it not conducive to reliability. There's not a lot of material in the frame around that arbor to thread in to, being the hand slot is right next to it. Eventually the end shoots off the gun and the barrel/cylinder goes downrange with the round ball. It "drops the arbor" in shooting lingo. Regardless, even the brass frame replica Colts are becoming collectible to some degree as of late, because most of those Italian replica companies are now out of business, and collectors are starting to buy up different barrel addresses made by various dead Italian replica companies, such as ASM, COM, DGG, Replica Arms, etc. There's only 2 left making the pistols, that is Uberti and Pietta. The rest have been bought out and consolidated.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:16 AM   #5
Bootsie
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Roshi & U.L. Grant: I owned a pre-owned Uberti 51 Navy conversion. She had little mileage was just carried around. Over the years I fired ca. 300 rounds of CAS nitro and some 50 rounds of BP rounds through that little conversion. She had 2 easily cured issues: the factory trigger/bolt spring broke when I first disassembled her. Replaced that spring with one of these piano wire springs which took care of the 1st issue. The ejector rod was not properly adjusted, did not hit the center of the chamber. Had this same issue with a couple of other Army type Uberti "factory" conversions and Open Top replicas. But that is not really serious, you just have to know it and you can handle that.
I can confirm U.L. Grant's statement regarding the Belgian Centaures as recommended base guns for a custom conversion because of their harder steel. I had a number of them converted to shoot .44 Colt (200 grain inside lubed bullets/barrels lined to .429 dia) since 2008. They work well. 2 converted Centaure Marshals are my main match pistols in CAS activities for over a year now. They still have their factory arbor firmly seated in the frame.
After a couple of years shooting experience with modern made C&B pistols of open top type pistol from Centaure/FAUL & Uberti custom converted, and "factory" conversions from ASM and Uberti I feel comfortable shooting Centaure but not Italian based custom conversions.
In my experience the Uberti "factory" conversions are reliable shooters but they are beefed-up i. e. less esthetically pleasing compared to the custom conversions. The one ASM 1860 Richards I owned had a barrel of too soft steel: there was a "bump" in the bore where the serial number was stamped onto the underside of the barrel!
My 2 € cents.
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:32 AM   #6
MJN77
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I have had one for years. Love it. Shoots great. Very accurate. Fantastic little gun. Not sure why anyone would think about trying to convert one of these into a C&B gun. Kind of going backwards isn't it?

Last edited by MJN77; September 27, 2012 at 11:38 AM.
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Old September 28, 2012, 04:12 PM   #7
Roshi
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Thanks!

MJN77

Thanks for the pic of a very nice used pistol. Lots of "character".

I'm after the conversion to experience what it was like in the next step from C&B before the Colt SAA.

I expect to put about 100 rounds through it a month. We'll see how long it stands up.

I rather doubt the original Colts, forged or not, were made of better steel than these 21st Century clones.
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Old September 28, 2012, 06:43 PM   #8
MJN77
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Your new conversion should hold up just fine. The original C&B and conversion revolvers weren't made of metal near as strong as new made guns. Not even close. Neither was the original 1873 Colts for that matter. As long as you don't try to use +p or +p+ loads the 1851 RM will last longer than you do. Mine only sees BP loads any more.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:00 PM   #9
Hawg
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Quote:
I rather doubt the original Colts, forged or not, were made of better steel than these 21st Century clones.
They weren't even made from steel. They were made from wrought iron.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:31 PM   #10
Hardy
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Are we talking about the gun (1851 Navy conversion)I questioned a month ago advertised in Guns of the Old west by Cimerron. I got negative feedback on that but I loved the ad and if this is what we're talking about, I would have to have the sterling silver snake on the grip. If I had the extra money, I'd buy 3. Put two in a case and shoot the other one. But Santa is not going to bring me this. The best thing I saw out of that Mag was the Stoeger coach 12 g/ double barrel shotgun that dealers said there were a months waiting list. I went to Academy (to buy shoes) and it just so happened they had 2 for much less that the suggested price I bought it

WBH
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Old September 28, 2012, 09:32 PM   #11
Roshi
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No the same as the "Snake gun"

The 1851 with the snake on grip has a loading lever which the Richards Mason 51 does not. The RM 51 has a casing ejector rod which the "Snake gun" does not.

For those of us old timers who saw a Fist Full of Dollars on the big screen the snake gripped 1851 has a lot of appeal.
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Old September 29, 2012, 06:15 AM   #12
MJN77
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That is the "man with no name conversion".
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Con...NoNameConv.htm
It's a copy of one of the guns Clint Eastwood used in his "spaghetti" westerns. It's not really a "conversion". It's a .38 cal 1872 open top revolver with a 51 navy barrel. The 51 RM conversion is a replica of an actual 19th century revolver.
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Con...ConvOpener.htm
I like both of them, but I like historical guns a little better than movie guns.
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