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Old September 28, 2012, 04:34 AM   #51
Sparks1957
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The Bersa Thunder Pro series are pretty fine guns. I own both the 9mm and the .45

Fit and finish is nothing special, but when it comes to function they have been flawless. I shoot very well with them, particularly the 9mm. They are a decent buy, and the price is still fairly low though they've increased quite a lot the past couple years as demand for them grows.

I'd recommend that people try them out.
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Old September 28, 2012, 05:22 AM   #52
mayosligo
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A friend has the Bersa 9. I have not fired it but I liked the look and feel and the price was @ $400 I think, 2 years ago.
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Old September 28, 2012, 05:40 AM   #53
JonathanZ
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I carry a Glock, but I wouldn't recommend a Glock or any polymer gun in a state where you can't carry the gun. I see no benefit in the reduced weight outside of carrying it.

I own a Sig P226, but the CZ and Beretta are better priced and you have found arguably the two best full size metal handguns in your price range. They'll both be plenty accurate and extremely reliable so it just comes down to whichever you personally like better when you try them out.

You are wise to go 9mm due to ammo costs. I prefer buying used, but I can understand the want to buy a new gun for your first and maybe only handgun. I've bought several used guns in excellent condition from individuals and saved quite a bit of money. They're in no worse shape than a new gun is in after a trip to the range.
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Old September 28, 2012, 06:09 AM   #54
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"Double Action Only pistols cock and release the hammer on each trigger pull. It seems that this would create a heavier and longer trigger pull. I'm not too fond of that idea. Just from my understanding and limited experience, it would seem that I would need quite a bit of practice to really become proficient at using a double action pistol due to that heavy trigger.
A 'Tune-up' can adjust the pull to whatever you want it to be. Very soft, silky and smoothe.

DA/SA pistols are able to cock and fire on the first trigger pull (which is heavier), but also have the ability to single action fire every consecutive action. The difference between is the ability to cock and fire on the first trigger pull, which the single action cannot do, and the ability to single fire on each consecutive shot, which the double action cannot do. A DA/SA pistol also has the ability to be cocked manually as a single action pistol can, so that each shot will be a single action shot. A Beretta 92 functions in this way.

Both my S&W's operate this way. I was used to it, I thought, but WTSHF, I blew the 2nd. shot! Luckily, the first went where it was needed and the second wasn't as necessary. If it had been, I would have been in a heap of trouble. I switched to 'tuned' GLocks which I never liked the look of either, but they do grow on you.
Not necessarily pushing Glock as much as I'm pointing out the action examples and differences. I believe the G is Striker, as opposed to DAO.
I also own and sometimes carry a couple of tuned DAO revolvers.
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Old September 28, 2012, 04:44 PM   #55
marine6680
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How is that allowed?!

I can understand owning... well not in accordance with the 2nd... but even touching is not allowed? Seems excessive...
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Old September 28, 2012, 04:52 PM   #56
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For an NIB handgun-semiautomatic-I recommend the CZ75 or 85. WITH the Kadet 22 conversion unit. Meets my insistence on a steel frame, the Kadet will give you plenty of low cost practice-and shooting pleasure-and the transition to centerfire is VERy easy.
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Old September 28, 2012, 04:56 PM   #57
sigcurious
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It's the way the FOID law is written, it prohibits possession(with exceptions) of a firearm without one.
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Old September 28, 2012, 05:02 PM   #58
XtremeRevolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
How is that allowed?!

I can understand owning... well not in accordance with the 2nd... but even touching is not allowed? Seems excessive...
I don't know if it's by law, but the shop I was in wouldn't let me handle one without it. I'm close to the Indiana border though, so I wonder if they would let me there...


Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSHR View Post
For an NIB handgun-semiautomatic-I recommend the CZ75 or 85. WITH the Kadet 22 conversion unit. Meets my insistence on a steel frame, the Kadet will give you plenty of low cost practice-and shooting pleasure-and the transition to centerfire is VERy easy.
How much would that conversion kit cost?


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Old September 28, 2012, 05:09 PM   #59
David White
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Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
How is that allowed?!

I can understand owning... well not in accordance with the 2nd... but even touching is not allowed? Seems excessive...
That is the way it is in the Republic of Illinois! Some towns ban handguns, some ban long guns and some ban them all!
I spent six years in various locals of that crappy state and I had to get out!
If you don't have a FOID card ( firearm owners identification Card ), you can't hold one. Illinois doesn't register guns, they register owners!!

Now I live in the land of the free (Vermont) and life is good! No permit to carry either openly or concealed!
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Old September 28, 2012, 05:20 PM   #60
sigcurious
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That is the way it is in the Republic of Illinois! Some towns ban handguns, some ban long guns and some ban them all!
It's been awhile since you've lived in IL, please don't spread outdated and incorrect information. Please see McDonald v Chicago. Might also help to check out District of Columbia v Heller.
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Old September 28, 2012, 05:22 PM   #61
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by David White View Post
That is the way it is in the Republic of Illinois! Some towns ban handguns, some ban long guns and some ban them all!
I spent six years in various locals of that crappy state and I had to get out!
If you don't have a FOID card ( firearm owners identification Card ), you can't hold one. Illinois doesn't register guns, they register owners!!

Now I live in the land of the free (Vermont) and life is good! No permit to carry either openly or concealed!
I believe Chicago used to ban handguns, but no longer. That got overruled by the supreme court if I remember correctly.

Fortunately, my town doesn't have any restrictions on handguns or magazine capacity or anything of the sort. Chicago and Aurora do though. My gripe will be the wait time before I get my FOID card. If it doesn't arrive in 31 days, I'll be making some phone calls.

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Old September 28, 2012, 08:08 PM   #62
David White
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It's been awhile since you've lived in IL, please don't spread outdated and incorrect information. Please see McDonald v Chicago. Might also help to check out District of Columbia v Heller.
Oh yeah... because of course they allow concealed carry now, how foolish of me!
A couple of victories in the court system has not given Illinois residents the right to carry.
I have relatives and LEO friends there so I'm not out of the loop.
You still don't get a permit, you still don't pass go... sorry.
Sure is nice though that you can keep a gun in your house now.
Do they allow bullets as well or do you have to wait for another court ruling for that?
The only thing different from then and now is that with Heller, Illinoisans won the right to have a gun in the house.
Lets not get all righteous when all that Heller has done is baby steps.
Your making it sound as though you've stepped out of the Stone Age into the light.
All Heller and McDonald did was change the "bulb".

Just sayin..... Ya know?

Last edited by David White; September 28, 2012 at 08:18 PM.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:22 PM   #63
sigcurious
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Carry is a separate issue from possession
You stated
Quote:
Some towns ban handguns, some ban long guns and some ban them all!
Handgun bans were lifted, and please cite a single town that had an outright prohibition on firearms. The statement is outdated and incorrect.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:35 PM   #64
marine6680
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How much would that conversion kit cost?
I think it is around $250 for the kit... For a little more you can get a dedicated 22lr pistol... but some people like to be able to use the same frame and trigger.

Using the kit does limit your options should you want to change the hammer spring for a lighter trigger pull. (an easy to do and cheap upgrade) While most 9mm will ignite primers reliably with a #15 or #16 hammer spring, for 22lr #18 is needed for reliability. (stock is #22)

I you decide you want to do the hammer spring swap... its less than $10 for the spring and about 15-30 minutes of time... And it really lightens the pull...

CZs are known to have stiff triggers out of the box, but they smooth out after a few hundred rounds. The triggers are decent/good but not great...

I put in a #16 and I have a DA pull around 10lb and a SA around 4.5lb... estimated by compairing to pistols with known trigger pulls. Need to verify. (wanted #15 but they were out of stock) I also did a trigger job myself and polished the trigger parts, but that is not needed... But I ended up with a real nice trigger when I was done.

A good gun smith can tune up a CZ trigger to being one of if not the best DA/SA trigger available... Heck any competent smith can tune one to better than most other pistols... But as I said, its not required, many CZ users just leave the trigger stock or at most drop in a lighter hammer spring, and let the trigger smooth out over a few hundred rounds, and they are more than happy with the trigger.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:36 PM   #65
orionengnr
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First off, get your FOID.

When I left IL, you were not allowed to touch a firearm without presenting your FOID. Seriously, when I went to a gun show (Lake County, not Crook County) or visited a gun shop (same), before I could handle any firearm, I had to show your FOID. Likewise, when I went to a range, before they would assign me a lane, I had to show my FOID.

I cannot imagine that it has gotten any better in the last few years. As much as I enjoyed my time in IL, there is no way I will ever move back there unless/until there is a serious regime change...and that is not going to happen soon.

Once you have the FOID, find a range that rents different guns and try everything you can lay your hands on. When I lived there, Gun World in Bensenville fitted that description. Since the O'Hare expansion, they are no longer in that location, but may have re-opened elsewhere (I hope).

There may be some TFL members local to you who will be willing to meet you at a local range and let you try theirs...if I were still there, I would.

There was also a big two-story building with a gun and archery shop and an on-site range...cannot remember the name of it, but it was 20-30 miles south and west of where I lived in Rolling Meadows.

Ah, a quick Google search, and here we go...
http://www.gatguns.com/
Note--when I was there, the counter staff was a bunch of teenage monkeys who exhibited deplorabe safety habits...racking a slide, pointing at a fellow counter-worker, pulling the trigger and saying..A Huh huh huh..I shot you in the butt, dude! Pure Beavis and Butthead.

I only went there once. Hope it has improved. But they had a large selection and an on-site range.

I hope other members will chime in and offer some more suggestions.

Best regards, Rich

Last edited by orionengnr; September 28, 2012 at 08:51 PM.
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Old September 28, 2012, 08:44 PM   #66
XtremeRevolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orionengnr View Post
First off, get your FOID.

When I left IL, you were not allowed to touch a firearm without presenting your FOID. Seriously, when I went to a gun show (Lake County, not Crook County) or visited a gun shop (same), before I could handle any firearm, I had to show your FOID. Likewise, when I went to a range, before they would assign me a lane, I had to show my FOID.

I cannot imagine that it has gotten any better in the last few years. As much as I enjoyed my time in IL, there is no way I will ever move back there unless/until there is a serious regime change...and that is not going to happen.
I moved out here for college, met my wife here, and for family reasons, I will be stuck here for the foreseeable future. I wish things could get better, but at least I'm not in Cook county so I don't have to spend hundreds to get each gun registered.

It's silly that I can't even handle a gun without a FOID. I wonder if I could just drive down to a shop in Indiana and pick up and run a few practice rounds through my handgun of choice. Last I heard, they don't require a FOID as its an Illinois only thing. It would be a 45 minute drive, which wouldn't be bad.

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Old September 28, 2012, 08:54 PM   #67
orionengnr
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Yeah...and by the way, it's Crook County. Get it right.

Quote:
but at least I'm not in Cook county so I don't have to spend hundreds to get each gun registered.
I was in Crook County, and did not have to register any guns or pay any fees...are you sure that is not a city of Chicago thing?

Don't know about the legality of driving to IN to a range. I don't believe it would be a problem as long as you are not attempting to buy a gun across state lines, and I know that is not your intent.

I am not a lawyer. I am pretty sure that if you visit an IN gun shop/range and are up-front, I cannot see where you will have a problem.

Edited to add...if you are stuck in the area for family reasons, you can live in IN or WI, and be an hour or so from your relatives in Crook County.

You can live in the real world every day and occasionally visit those who choose not to.

When I retire in 6-10 years, I will be looking at that area. But as the laws are currently written (not just CCW, but taxes and others) I will choose southern WI or NW IN over IL.

Best regards, Rich

Last edited by orionengnr; September 28, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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Old September 28, 2012, 09:11 PM   #68
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by orionengnr View Post
Yeah...and by the way, it's Crook County. Get it right.

I was in Crook County, and did not have to register any guns or pay any fees...are you sure that is not a city of Chicago thing?

Don't know about the legality of driving to IN to a range. I don't believe it would be a problem as long as you are not attempting to buy a gun across state lines, and I know that is not your intent.

I am not a lawyer. I am pretty sure that if you visit an IN gun shop/range and are up-front, I cannot see where you will have a problem.

Edited to add...if you are stuck in the area for family reasons, you can live in IN or WI, and be an hour or so from your relatives in Crook County.

You can live in the real world every day and occasionally visit those who choose not to.

When I retire in 6-10 years, I will be looking at that area. But as the laws are currently written (not just CCW, but taxes and others) I will choose southern WI or NW IN over IL.

Best regards, Rich
Rich,

Not a bad idea. I'll have to see where jobs are. I currently work in Downers Grove, but I might be looking for a new place to work soon. Company getting bought out next year.

I'll drive down to Indiana tomorrow and try to get some rounds through these two handguns.

- Andrei

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Old September 29, 2012, 01:17 AM   #69
David White
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Handgun bans were lifted, and please cite a single town that had an outright prohibition on firearms. The statement is outdated and incorrect.
Seven years ago the town of Evanston banned handgun ownership. There was a town near Schaumburg that had an outright ban on all guns. I will have to call my buddy there to confirm which town it was.

Don't get all defensive! It's not my problem that you live in a state that does not recognize your inalienable right to keep and bear arms.

Who knows... Maybe in a few decades we will all remember fondly about a time when people there couldn't conceal carry legally! Sad part is neither you or I will be alive to see that day.

So..... once again.... life sucks for you and your rights. Suck it up and just remember.... there are places (like Vermont, where I live) that don't screw you over on the 2nd amendment.

Breathe deeply and hope for a change in the future. After all... That is the best you can hope for.
As for me, I'll think about you as I blast rounds off at the range... and pray for the day that you too can be free like me.
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Old September 29, 2012, 05:20 AM   #70
chrisintexas
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Any CZ suggested here in this thread, available in stainless steel frame?
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Old September 29, 2012, 04:38 PM   #71
marine6680
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Any CZ suggested here in this thread, available in stainless steel frame?
Polished and Matte.


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Old September 29, 2012, 04:46 PM   #72
XtremeRevolution
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I wonder if the SP-01 is also available in those finishes.

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Old September 29, 2012, 04:49 PM   #73
marine6680
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BTW the CZ USA site has some pictures there as well.

Here is the Kadet 22LR conversion kit.

I own two CZs... one 9mm in nickel, the nickel is a satin finish with a little gold/yellow tint to it... and one 40 in dual tone, dual tone is a matte blued slide with nickel frame. (notice the pics are exactly opposite of what I own... the pics are 40 nickel and 9mm dual tone )

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by marine6680; September 29, 2012 at 04:59 PM.
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Old September 29, 2012, 05:08 PM   #74
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The SP-01 is concidered a tactical model... so its black only... but it looks sweet in black.

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Old September 29, 2012, 05:15 PM   #75
XtremeRevolution
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The SP-01 is concidered a tactical model... so its black only... but it looks sweet in black.

Not that I mind. It does look good though. Gotta have that accessory rail!

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