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Old September 26, 2012, 01:44 PM   #26
mayosligo
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I also have enjoyed the XD 9. Again, I did the research and then was able to shoot it before I made my purchase. I had it narrowed down between this and a Sig. I wanted a shorter barrel. The last determining factor was my wife who liked the feel of the XD. As this is a pistol I have with me a great deal I also wanted her to be comfortable with the look and feel. She liked it better than the SIG.
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Old September 26, 2012, 01:49 PM   #27
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I haven't fully read every post but something I haven't seen mentioned is action type and there are a few choices to consider.

Single action- The trigger only releases the hammer. This allows for a nice short and light trigger but the gun must be manually cocked before the first shot. You can either do this with your thumb or it will cock when the slide is manipulated to chamber a round. If it is left cocked, as is common practice, the safety should be left on and, of course, you must disengage the safety before the gun will fire.

Single action/double action- The trigger pull is longer and heavier for the first shot because it manually cocks the hammer just like a double action revolver. After that, however, the hammer will remain cocked for follow up shots and the trigger will be much lighter.

Double action only- The same as above except that every shot is fired double action like the first one.

Striker fired- These have a striker instead of a hammer. The gun partially "cocks" and the trigger finishes cocking the gun. The result is lighter shorter trigger but not as short and light as a single action. Many of these do not have manual safeties.

I am sure others can explain this much better but hopefully that gives you a general idea.

Since ammo cost is a concern, I tend to agree that the 9mm is a good choice. I believe it is a good compromise between cost and performance, especially with modern ammunition.


Personally, I like to follow the KISS (keep it simple stupid) philosophy when it comes to self defense. I don't like changing trigger pulls with the same gun and I don't want to forget to flip off a manual safety when woken up at 2:00 am and facing a deadly threat. My nightstand gun is a 6" Ruger GP100 357 magnum revolver. Why? Because I shoot it better than any other handgun I own, it is an effective caliber, and is extremely simple and reliable. My concealed carry gun is a full size Smith & Wesson M&P in 357 Sig which is striker fired. Again, it is a very simple firearm to operate that does not have a manual safety.

There is a long list of quality guns from reputable manufacturers, especially in 9mm. I would suggest to handle or better yet actually shoot as many as possible and figure out what action type you are comfortable with as well as whether or not you want a manual safety. Then, see which gun of that type you feel comfortable with.
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Old September 26, 2012, 04:26 PM   #28
XtremeRevolution
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mayosligo: I think I'm looking for a longer barrel. I don't have a need for a short barrel.

SRH78: Truthfully, I wasn't even aware that these types of action types existed. I went ahead and started reading more about these types, and here's what I found. I will likely be re-stating what you already have, but for my own reference and to verify that my understanding is correct.

Single Action pistols require the hammer to be cocked the first time. The slide then re-cocks the pistol on each consecutive shot. Modern single action designs are noted to automatically cock the hammer during the insertion of the magazine and sliding of the slider to chamber the first round. Pulling the trigger without cocking the gun first does nothing, and the pistol can be easily de-cocked. The 1911 as I'm reading is a single action pistol that functions in this way. I would not mind having a single-action pistol. It would appear to me to be a rather simple design.

Double Action Only pistols cock and release the hammer on each trigger pull. It seems that this would create a heavier and longer trigger pull. I'm not too fond of that idea. Just from my understanding and limited experience, it would seem that I would need quite a bit of practice to really become proficient at using a double action pistol due to that heavy trigger.

DA/SA pistols are able to cock and fire on the first trigger pull (which is heavier), but also have the ability to single action fire every consecutive action. The difference between is the ability to cock and fire on the first trigger pull, which the single action cannot do, and the ability to single fire on each consecutive shot, which the double action cannot do. A DA/SA pistol also has the ability to be cocked manually as a single action pistol can, so that each shot will be a single action shot. A Beretta 92 functions in this way.

I'm reading that 1911s generally don't respond well to hollow point rounds. Isn't that what I'd normally use for self defense?

I think I can narrow down my options a great deal with the requirements that I've figured out so far. This discussion is really helping me determine what my priorities are.
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Old September 26, 2012, 06:24 PM   #29
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Ok... to address a few of your points.

First Here is a link to Hickok45's youtube. Go to his playlists and look at the "basics" and "gun safety" videos. He has a lot of good info.

Here is a thread I did on cleaning if you need any info on that.

As was mentioned... Single action, double action, SA/DA, DA only, Hammer fired, striker fired... Its not hard to learn, and you have started that process. The videos on the youtube channel I linked has a run down and demo so its easier to grasp rather than reading.



Polymer... its been around for over 20 years... its proven itself, but buy quality brands. Some polymer guns from cheaper brands are not always designed with longevity in mind, but pure size and weight. The Kel Tek pistols come to mind, pocket sized, and very light, but are not designed for years of regular range use.

I like the XD/XDm because of how it is designed... there is a large chunk of metal in it that holds all the guts and has beefy slide rails in it. It is built well, and will last a long time... Competitive shooters have put tens of thousands of rounds through a single XD and Glock with no major parts replacements or problems. (springs do need changed after several thousand rounds as preventive maintenance... 6000-10000 rounds or so depending on model)


Longer barrels are more accurate and provide more velocity to the round. Accuracy comes from a longer distance between front and rear sight. (sight radius)


The 1911 can be a little finiky for a couple reasons:
It was never designed to feed hollow points...
It was designed to be build with parts fitted by hand...

A 1911 built to the original specs using the original design magazines will feed FMJ very very reliably... HP ammo can be difficult to feed because the shape can throw off feeding geometry. Modern pistols are designed with this in mind, the 1911 wasn't. There are ways to get it to feed HP, tweaking of the original feeding geometry design, or redesigned magazines. These tweaks are compromises... as they need to make the pistol feed many types of ammo even FMJ, and while the quality makers mostly get it right, sometimes there is tweaking that needs done after purchase...

Hand labor is expensive now a days... so most firearms are made from part that are machined, cast, or forged, and modern techniques make for tight tolerances... but variations exist in the parts. Then the firearms are assembled on an assembly line. Sometimes a firearm is assembled with just the right combination of parts in which the tolerances add up in a way that causes issues.

There are some companies that hand fit 1911s during assembly... but you are going to pay good money for that. SA does do some models with hand fitting, they start at $1500 and up depending on the level of detail in the fitting and features added. Nighthawk Custom hand fits every pistol they make... but they start at $2500 and go up from there.


Hollow points are indeed the preferred choice for defensive use... but they are expensive, about 3 times the cost of FMJ target ammo. Winchester PDX1, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dots... they are on the top of the performance figures, and generally feed reliably, while still being easier to find and not overly expensive.

The rule of thumb is that any pistol you plan on using for defense... you need to pick a HP ammo you prefer. (usually one that is good performing and easy to locate locally) You then need to fire at least a couple 50rd boxes of this ammo through your pistol, and more if you can. This is to test to see if it feeds reliably in your pistol... as no two pistols are exactly the same, even if they are the same model. You may find one that feeds Gold Dots well but not PDX1s for example.

My preferred 9mm defense load is 124gr +P, and currently it is Federal HST, as I found a very good deal on it. Here is a post of mine talking about ammo and the different types and things to look for.



Since you expressed interest in the CZ.
CZ USA's website handgun page.
The original was the CZ 75, and they developed different versions from there. Hickok45 has a review on the 75. CZ claims that the CZ 75 is the most widely used service pistol in the world... Jeff Cooper, which many/most feel is a high authority on defensive/combat hand-gunning, considered the CZ 75 the best service pistol in the world. The 75 has an "in frame" slide design that is different from most pistols and aids in its accuracy and ease of shooting.

They are made in the Czech Republic... and if you feel funny about that... don't be. The company has been around for over 100 years, and not only do they have a long standing reputation for quality firearms, they have designed and built some well known military firearms... the British Bren machine gun for example... the CZ 75 is as well... seeing as its also one of the most copied handguns ever with only the 1911 having more... The Czech are known for having outstanding military arms. They are the only Warsaw Pact country (part of the USSR) that did not adopt the AK47 when prompted to by Moscow. They designed their own rifle, the VZ 58, and many feel it is equal if not better than the AK... it definitely has some features that I like better than the AK.

They have several "duty" sized and full sized, pistols in steel, aluminum, and polymer frames. The P-01 is a duty sized with aluminum frame and accessory rail. It was designed as a new police issue weapon, and several around the world use it. The SP-01 is a full sized steel framed big brother to the P-01... the full size is probably your best bet, the longer barrel and extra weight will aid shoot-ability.

The pistols are designed as DA/SA, which I like in a pistol I will use for defense. (I like striker fired as well)

You can get the CZ with a manual safety, which allows you to insert a loaded magazine, chamber a round, and you then have the option to engage the safety and have it "cocked and locked" like a single action 1911, or you can manually lower the hammer and have it ready with DA first shot and SA for follow up shots. Many like this as they do not need to worry about "forgetting" to disengage the safety when under stress if they are in a defense situation.

Small problem though... Manually lowering the hammer involves some risk... the risk that you will somehow let the hammer slip from your control, and accidentally fire the pistol... There are techniques which limit this risk to near 0, but it will always be there, and lapse of concentration due to complacency, is the usual reason for negligent discharge when manually lowering the hammer.

This is why "decockers" were invented... And CZ offers decocker models.

Decockers lower/decock the hammer for you mechanically and safely. For a new shooter or someone who is uncomfortable with manual decocking, this is a good thing.

Here is the official CZ forum. It is a good place for info for CZ firearms.



If you can't tell... I really like CZ pistols.

I think they are superior to the Beretta 92... and while there may be many other pistols that are just as accurate or reliable... they do not approach the comfort and ease of shooting that CZ has... Or that can match the performance at similar price levels. Sigs are excellent pistols, but cost several hundred dollars more than a CZ... I even saw a review of the SP-01 where the guy said that anyone that uses a CZ in competitions is cheating, because they are so easy to shoot.



Another thing to consider down the road is getting a 22lr pistol for cheap practice and general fun. The Ruger Mark III or SR22 are good choices, and can be had for around $300... Or if you do buy a CZ pistol, you can pick up the CZ Kadet conversion kit, for about $250... it allows you to convert your CZ 9mm into a 22lr for practice.
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Old September 26, 2012, 08:57 PM   #30
XtremeRevolution
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Thank you for the long and superbly well written explanation and advice. Very much appreciated.

Despite being hardly able to give advice on specifics on the internet, all the advice I've been given so far really points me to either the CZ we've been discussing or the Baretta 92A1 with the accessory rail. I will make time to see if I can even hold the two at a gun shop soon while my FOID gets processed to see which I prefer from an initial impression. Both have a heck of a legacy.

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Old September 26, 2012, 09:24 PM   #31
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Xtreme,
If you like the Beretta 92FS, then you ought to look at the Taurus 92FS it is a licensed copy (exact copy) of the Beretta and it costs about $200 less.

See what Wikipedia says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_92

If you like the longer barrel and 9mm that's you best choice and at around $400 it is hard to beat. The Beretta's go for around $600. I had one and it worked flawlessly.

The only downside with the Beretta design is that getting to the firing pin for cleaning is a bit complicated. I bought an AGI video that showed me everything I needed to completely disassemble it and re-assemble it.

The upside is that unless you shoot a lot you won't have to do that but once every couple of years.
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Old September 26, 2012, 09:43 PM   #32
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Haven't read all the previous posts - I just want to make a couple broad statements:

All machines fail, so if you plan on keeping this gun a while it will need replacement parts - first to go under normal use would be the recoil spring after several thousand rounds. I'd shy away from import guns that do not have a strong presence in the states (that are imported by a differently named company) as replacement parts may be difficult to get. So would repairs be.

As a Home defense gun/bedside you aren't worried about concealment so full service length (4+ inches) is a good idea for the long sight radius and extra weight for follow up shots. Same with larger capacity. Consider a flashlight or night sights or both. I just have a flashlight - just $30 AA light but it's darn bright.

- just read the above posts: CZ-USA is a company that does have a strong presence here. Of course so is Beretta.

And don't forget to beef up security in general aside from the firearm. Even if it's just a sliding bolt on the bedroom door.
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Old September 26, 2012, 10:00 PM   #33
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Don't discount the polymer framed pistols... if you don't want one, then thats fine... but there are several fine models.

For me the CZ wins over the 92...

My order of preference is: (in relation to shooting comfort and fun)
CZ
XDM
Sig 226
XD
Hi Power
Sig 2022
A few others that fit in around here... all about even and I would be hard pressed to order them. I have yet to find a pistol I didn't at least like shooting a little. (the Hi-power would be higher, but its design causes a little hammer bite when shooting, otherwise its similar to the CZ)

As far as the Taurus 92... Taurus is one of those brands that has a mixed reputation... From what I gather... when they work they work great, but they have a higher percentage of finicky picky guns than others.
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Old September 26, 2012, 11:37 PM   #34
XtremeRevolution
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Eppie: I've done some research on Taurus and would not want to purchase one at this time. If I go with that design, it will most likely be a Beretta. dyl makes a good point in that it would be wise to pick a gun that has a strong presence in the US and parts can easily be found for. The Taurus 92 doesn't have any parts that interchange with the Beretta 92 from what I've read.

dyl: Thanks for bringing up the discussion on replacement parts. I would imagine that they would need to get replaced at one point after a decently long service life.

A flashlight is definitely on my list of add-ons for the accessory rail.

marine6680: For some reason, I just can't wrap my head around a polymer frame. I read something like this, and it really makes me think:

Quote:
I read in either Guns And Ammo or Guns And Weapons For Law Enforcement, that Springfield Armory was awarded a contract to build 50,000 top slides for the 1911 .45 to fit the USMC surplus of recievers. Some of these 1911s have been in service since WW2. Slap a new slide and barrel on them, and they are ready to serve another 60 years. This is a fact, the 1911 built to mil spec will shoot out dozens of barrels before it needs replacing. It is difficult to discuss if a polimer frame would be able to sustain such use/abuse over so many years as that they have only been around for 15 years or so. Glock to the best of my knowlege is the first.

So why so many polymers out there, and why so popular???

Marketing and Money. A polymer frame can be manufactured for less than half the price of a full steel gun.
Maybe they're not that bad, I don't think I'll be able to deal with it unfortunately. I may yet change my mind when I get to see them in person, but there's just something more beautiful to me about a full metal handgun.

Last edited by XtremeRevolution; September 26, 2012 at 11:58 PM.
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:01 AM   #35
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This is for informational purposes, go metal or polymer as you choose.

But what you quoted would have to be at least 15 years old to be accurate, glocks have been around for 30 years.
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremeRevolution, post 25
(edited for brevity)Very much appreciated.

Lost Sheep: I am beginning to understand that one can shoot better with a longer gun,...but also something I could use on a monthly basis.
You are welcome. And thanks for the individual reply.

Since you have decided against the shotgun, I will give you my considered recommendation for a handgun house gun.

Since you are interested in shooting for fun as well as for defense, something with good target sights and the ability to group well. It is nothing but frustrating to shoot with a gun that does not shoot as well as you do. ALL of my guns shoot better than I do. That means, as I practice, I can see improvement. Seeing improvement is edifying. Not seeing improvement is discouraging.

Many of the service pistols are not accurate enough to meet that requirement.

The .357 cartridge can be a bit overkill, but many full-size and medium frame guns are accurate and good, Muzzle blast and flash can be problematic in one's own home, not to mention overpenetration.

A .44 Special, .45 Colt or .45 ACP is good, though the ammunition is a bit more expensive than 38 Special or .357 Magnum.

Here's my recommendation:

Get a .22 rimfire and matching centerfire that handle similarly (e.g. Ruger's 22/45 and any decent 1911, which are available in 9m, .40 S&W and 45 ACP, by the way) The rimfire is cheap to practice with and develops handgun skills (especially sight alignment, which is different than with a rifle).

Having a rimfire handgun first will also put you on the handgun range and allow you to see many other guns being used. Might even get to shoot a few. You know how proud most gun owners are of their hardware and like to have other shooters admire them.

I would tend to be partial to a used 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in 44 Magnum, loaded with 44 Special ammunition for home use.

My current bedside gun is a 6" Ruger Security Six loaded with frangible ammunition to reduce the danger to anyone outside my exterior walls.

I occasionally substitute a Taurus Millenium 45 ACP that, remarkably, groups as well as my Colt Gold Cup, despite the rudimentary sights, short barrel and Taurus reputation. It has a rail for laser sight/flashlight to be attached.

Revolvers have their springs "at rest" all the time, which some people see as an advantage. They are simple to operate and very reliable. If you wake from a deep sleep and need to respond to an emergency, operating a revolver is dead simple and there is (with a double action revolver) a long trigger pull to make accidental discharges less likely.

With lots of practice, the semi-auto does hold something of an edge in a firefight (in my opinion).

So, recommendation: A target 22rimfire first. Then for centerfire; Target sights. Ability to group well. Minimum caliber .357 diameter, and the larger the better. In your price range a used revolver in good condition, say, a Ruger GP100 38/357 or Ruger Redhawk 44. Any accurate 1911 (Remington 1911 or Ruger 1911 are running around $700 new, in stainless steel). I have a Taurus 99 in 9mm that is very nice, but I like bigger bullets than that. The DA/SA aspect makes the first shot deliberate and followup shots are single action.

Note: you can load your own ammunition and cut your ammo costs greatly with an investment in a good loading setup. Take the cost of 10 boxes of ammo and you can load up 10 boxes worth for the same money. After that the savings just mount up.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep
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Old September 27, 2012, 12:08 PM   #37
XtremeRevolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
You are welcome. And thanks for the individual reply.

Since you have decided against the shotgun, I will give you my considered recommendation for a handgun house gun.

Since you are interested in shooting for fun as well as for defense, something with good target sights and the ability to group well. It is nothing but frustrating to shoot with a gun that does not shoot as well as you do. ALL of my guns shoot better than I do. That means, as I practice, I can see improvement. Seeing improvement is edifying. Not seeing improvement is discouraging.

Many of the service pistols are not accurate enough to meet that requirement.

The .357 cartridge can be a bit overkill, but many full-size and medium frame guns are accurate and good, Muzzle blast and flash can be problematic in one's own home, not to mention overpenetration.

A .44 Special, .45 Colt or .45 ACP is good, though the ammunition is a bit more expensive than 38 Special or .357 Magnum.

Here's my recommendation:

Get a .22 rimfire and matching centerfire that handle similarly (e.g. Ruger's 22/45 and any decent 1911, which are available in 9m, .40 S&W and 45 ACP, by the way) The rimfire is cheap to practice with and develops handgun skills (especially sight alignment, which is different than with a rifle).

Having a rimfire handgun first will also put you on the handgun range and allow you to see many other guns being used. Might even get to shoot a few. You know how proud most gun owners are of their hardware and like to have other shooters admire them.

I would tend to be partial to a used 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in 44 Magnum, loaded with 44 Special ammunition for home use.

My current bedside gun is a 6" Ruger Security Six loaded with frangible ammunition to reduce the danger to anyone outside my exterior walls.

I occasionally substitute a Taurus Millenium 45 ACP that, remarkably, groups as well as my Colt Gold Cup, despite the rudimentary sights, short barrel and Taurus reputation. It has a rail for laser sight/flashlight to be attached.

Revolvers have their springs "at rest" all the time, which some people see as an advantage. They are simple to operate and very reliable. If you wake from a deep sleep and need to respond to an emergency, operating a revolver is dead simple and there is (with a double action revolver) a long trigger pull to make accidental discharges less likely.

With lots of practice, the semi-auto does hold something of an edge in a firefight (in my opinion).

So, recommendation: A target 22rimfire first. Then for centerfire; Target sights. Ability to group well. Minimum caliber .357 diameter, and the larger the better. In your price range a used revolver in good condition, say, a Ruger GP100 38/357 or Ruger Redhawk 44. Any accurate 1911 (Remington 1911 or Ruger 1911 are running around $700 new, in stainless steel). I have a Taurus 99 in 9mm that is very nice, but I like bigger bullets than that. The DA/SA aspect makes the first shot deliberate and followup shots are single action.

Note: you can load your own ammunition and cut your ammo costs greatly with an investment in a good loading setup. Take the cost of 10 boxes of ammo and you can load up 10 boxes worth for the same money. After that the savings just mount up.

Good luck.

Lost Sheep
Thanks for the detailed reply.

I had not put a whole lot of thought into accuracy. It doesn't appear to be the kind of topic that I could get a lot of information on, as I may find many biased sources. How do the CZ 75 and Beretta 92 perform in that regard?

I am a bit hesitant to purchase two handguns. I feel that a .22 would indeed be fun to shoot, but wouldn't do me much good for home defense, and my budget is limited. Getting a .45 first would give me better home defense, but I wouldn't be able to fire away $0.50 every time I pull the trigger. On that note, I don't know if I would be able to get comfortable with a .45 until I stopped caring about the price of ammo.

You mentioned pricing, and that's something I was wondering about. All I have seen is MSRP pricing for anything. How much under MSRP can one expect to buy pay for a handgun retail?

Reloading is something I will likely consider once I get more into this and determine how often I can make it out to the range.

The Ruger and Remington 1911s are nice, but unfortunately do not have an accessory rail. I would very much like to be able to mount a flashlight.

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Old September 27, 2012, 03:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
I had not put a whole lot of thought into accuracy. It doesn't appear to be the kind of topic that I could get a lot of information on, as I may find many biased sources. How do the CZ 75 and Beretta 92 perform in that regard?
I don't know about the Beretta but the CZ 75 is one of the most (if not the most) accurate pistols on the market.


Quote:
How much under MSRP can one expect to buy pay for a handgun retail?
$550-675 depending on which CZ 75 you get...but I don't check prices too often
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Old September 27, 2012, 04:17 PM   #39
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Yeah... the CZ 75 Line of pistols is well know as being very accurate.

I can do 2 inch groups with my CZ in 9mm at 10 yards all the time without even trying too hard. If I actually focus on accuracy, I can get it lower.

The CZ makes me look good.

I have seen the standard CZ 75 going for $450-500 online for the basic black... with fancier finishes it can go up to $500-550.

The SP-01 is $600 online.

For other brands... it really depends on the brand, the shop, and how high the MSRP is to begin with... its easier to discount $100 on a $800 MSRP than on a $300 MSRP.

I find that $75-100 is about average for pistols in the $500-800 MSRP range, when shopping from a good shop.

Budsgunshop.com tends to have some of the best prices online... with a few smaller more obscure sites having sales on individual models on occasion that you might find and can take advantage of.
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Old September 27, 2012, 04:37 PM   #40
XtremeRevolution
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I've heard that the baby desert eagle is based on the CZ 75. Is this true? Does anyone have any experience with it? I'm thinking of adding it to my list of options. It's priced very well.

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Old September 27, 2012, 04:47 PM   #41
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It is... I prefer the original as it makes it a little easier to get replacement parts. Many parts are common between the CZ and the copies, but some parts are not.

This is very true of the magazines.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:02 PM   #42
XtremeRevolution
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Originally Posted by marine6680 View Post
It is... I prefer the original as it makes it a little easier to get replacement parts. Many parts are common between the CZ and the copies, but some parts are not.

This is very true of the magazines.
Alright, I'll stick to the CZ instead then. Back to two choices.

Between the CZ 75 SP-01 and the Beretta 92A1, can anyone comment on their accuracy and comfort? So long as one of them feels good in my hand, I probably end up getting it. I'm a bit torn between the two though as they are right at the same price point and both have quite a reputation.

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Old September 27, 2012, 06:15 PM   #43
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Don't forget the 357 Magnum/38 Special revolver, The 38/357 revolver allows you the choice of 2 calibers and a multitude of bullet/power options. Also if you happen to be interested in handloading, the 38/357 is one of the easiest rounds to start with. By handloading you can save considerably on practice ammo. Used high quality revolvers can be had in your price range with some left over for ammo and accessories.
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Old September 27, 2012, 06:21 PM   #44
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I don't like the Glock very much purely due to appearance.
So let me see if I understand this. Your looking for an affordable gun for home protection but its got to look good?
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Old September 27, 2012, 07:09 PM   #45
XtremeRevolution
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMD View Post
So let me see if I understand this. Your looking for an affordable gun for home protection but its got to look good?
When there are other perfectly good options, yes. If I'm going to spend half a grand on something, I at least want to like it. The appearance and poly frame are two things that rule it out. Call it superficial if you must.

A Prius will get you from point a to point b and back, so why did I buy a Cruze Eco MT6when I'll be in the same financial place in 200k miles? They both serve the same purpose and cost the same in the end, but one is ifinitely more enjoyable to drive and much better looking.

I'm not doubting the Glock is a great handgun, but I have no desire to own one.

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Old September 27, 2012, 07:31 PM   #46
marine6680
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Quote:
Between the CZ 75 SP-01 and the Beretta 92A1, can anyone comment on their accuracy and comfort? So long as one of them feels good in my hand, I probably end up getting it. I'm a bit torn between the two though as they are right at the same price point and both have quite a reputation.
You already know my position...

If you have narrowed it down to the two... maybe start a new thread and ask.

Maybe make it a poll.
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Old September 27, 2012, 08:27 PM   #47
David White
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Throw the Ruger SR9 into the mix and I think you have a winner.
You can buy, sell and trade guns for twenty years and still be looking for the "perfect gun". It doesn't exist.
Some you will love, some you will hate and some will have you beating your head against the wall wondering what you where thinking when you bought it.
As a resident of Illinois, are you in a town that "allows" handguns? There are many patchwork towns and each has its own ordinances on guns!
I lived in Evanston and I was not allowed to own a handgun. I could own a rifle though! Strange when you think about it as a long gun is far more deadly than a handgun!
Just one last thought and I'm gone... I'm glad you didn't ask about calibers!
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Old September 27, 2012, 09:11 PM   #48
XtremeRevolution
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David White: I had looked at the Ruger as well, but it never stood out. I like the full size form factor and longer barrels of the Beretta and the CZ. I did check my local laws before looking into buying a handgun, and they are consistent with the laws of Illinois that restricts carry and conceal.

One gun that a good friend is trying to get me to consider is the Bersa Thunder Pro. It's a bit shorter of a barrel, but he insists that it's the best gun he's ever owned.

I went into a gun store today and had a talk with one of the sales guys. The place was fairly busy, but he was able to show me a Beretta 92A1 as well as a used CZ 75, and I liked the way they both looked. I'll be able to give a better impression of them when get my FOID card in and can actually handle and test shoot them. He said that the CZ 75 was difficult to get because they sell out very quickly. I guess that says something good about it.
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Old September 27, 2012, 10:47 PM   #49
marine6680
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I can't give much info on Bersa but what I have read... Mixed reviews but generally liked... but that was thier concealed sized pistols.

So how did the pistols feel in your hand?
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Old September 27, 2012, 11:06 PM   #50
XtremeRevolution
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I actually didn't get a chance to hold them, strangely enough. I can't handle any handgun until I have that silly FOID card, but I did get to look at them fairly up close. Didn't do me a whole lot of good to see them, but I at least got to see them.
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