The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 19, 2012, 09:07 PM   #51
Single Six
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 31, 2010
Location: N.C.
Posts: 1,522
Dwight55: Thanks for that.
__________________
Seen on a bumper sticker: "Exercise. Eat right. Take vitamins. Die anyway."
Single Six is offline  
Old August 19, 2012, 09:47 PM   #52
StlGuy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2012
Location: St Louis,Mo
Posts: 6
Flawed Reasoning....

Dwight55..

/quote>This line of reasoning is flawed almost beyond description. It looks like some sort of 1/2 baked attempt at liberal politically correct discussion.

Does that mean you shouldn't drive your children anywhere, . . . you didn't provide them with cars, licenses, insurance, and plates?/quote

I think you missed my point,which was..and this goes to the heart of a lot of the varied responses..is how much caution and protection and fear do we carry in our lives....Obviously it is better to be totally body protected, high calibre armed, backup weapons in place, at all times..but do we do that? An active LEO is obviously at higher risk, but the question still stands..its not "liberal" to consider the level of fear we teach our kids..and THAT is what i was referring to...If he feels better with a vest, then more power to him..is it really liberal to consider how we relate to society? If you feel it is, I'd reconsider....
StlGuy is offline  
Old August 20, 2012, 12:49 AM   #53
jimmythegeek
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 216
Risk of violence is lower these days, not higher

I'm about a year into gun ownership and exposure to what a lot of gun owners are thinking. I see a lot of gun owners say things are getting worse, and I have to wonder why people are more afraid than they used to be. Violent crime stats are down around the level of the late 1950s. There's been a steady decline for decades.

I won't argue with any individual's risk assessment: you can mitigate an unlikely threat by carrying, and if the cost is worth it to you, by all means! You absolutely have the right to manage your risks as you see fit. And maybe I'm the nut for figuring a Leave it to Beaver level of crime presents such a low level of risk I'm not doing much to get around it. I know Col. Cooper was concerned enough to start on the problem even before the boom in violent crime started. It's still perfectly rational to say "with crime rates still at or above X/100,000, I'm still going to carry and wear body armor." But it's not rational to say "Crime is going down so therefore I'm going to take additional measures." Of course, if you live in Detroit, it is NOT going down. But just about anywhere else in the country, it is.

If you think things are getting worse, what is it making you think that? Is it that every highly publicized incident ratchets up your risk assessment, and nothing ever lowers it? My take is that on the news, for *ever* it's been, "If it bleeds, it leads" and so we get stories of the Missing Young Attractive (White) Woman from across the country disappearing in another country - on the local news! Day after day, year in, year out. I imagine a serving police officer encounters the worst of what still goes on, and that would certainly affect my thinking.

I really don't intend to be a smart-ass or belittle anyone's approach to the safety of themselves and their families. I hope I made that clear and if I didn't, I apologize. OP asked for thoughts, you got mine, such as they are.
__________________
"Jeez, man, what's another word for 'stupid?'"
"Tactical." -Tom Servo
Marlin 795, 795ss, 39A Mountie, CZ-455 American, CZ-452 Scout, CZ-75 Kadet, AOM160 M1 Carbine, USGI M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, Dan Wesson PM7 1911
jimmythegeek is offline  
Old August 22, 2012, 06:43 PM   #54
shurshot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Posts: 761
JimmytheGeek; No offense taken, you ask a good question. Here is my response.

Despite what the "stats" say, those of us in LE are seeing bad things, VERY bad things, 24/7, that don't always make the news. Remember, statistics can be manipulated, and often are, to reflect what those in the Ivory towers want them to state. Those in power, want to remain in power and will seek to justify their mandates and leadership, one way or another.

I only wear my vest while on duty, per Dept. policy, but not off duty. Too hot! A handgun?, always.!

Crack/Meth heads and Bath Salter's are about as close to Zombies as we are ever going to see. This ain't wacky weed they are smoking anymore folks! These are some scary, desperate people, who will DO ANYTHING to get their drug of choice. And once they use, they are often out of their minds and very dangerous. Robbery, Rape, Burglary, Murder... they don't care about anyone else, including family, friends, elderly, etc., no empathy or compassion, only the securing of their next "high".

Their value system is often based upon a sense of entitlement, and may be the product of several generations of the same (the apples don't fall far from the tree), broken, abusive, dysfunctional family units, without positive male role models. Add hardcore drugs to the mix of these pro-criminal thugs with under developed brains, a few stolen weapons, and perhaps a dab of gang culture and you end up with very dangerous people roaming the streets. "Zombies", if you will. And they just keep right on breeding...

We taxpayers either pay for their Treatment in the community, or in institutions. Either way, "Evidence Based Practice & Treatment" is the current National philosophy (or at least the philosophy of the Dept. of Justice), and not primarlily punishment or accountability as it has previously been. And while this philosophy is based on logic & reason and WILL, over time, cut down on recidivism rates at prisons and Jails (which translates to lower taxes), but in the mean time many of those violent offenders who slip through the cracks of our LEGAL system (I didn't say "Justice", did I?), and remain in the community and continue to use or relapse, pose a HUGE threat to public safety. There are no easy answers, and our Society is "at the crossroads", with two distinct groups comprised of those of us who are law abiding, decent people working and paying into the system, and those degenerates who live off the system and have no respect for the law, other people or society as a whole. We work and hope & plan for the future, for our children, for our Nation. "They" live and party in the moment, have no plans or desire to work, and expect, if not demand, our society to care for their basic needs, and then some. Zombies. It is a violent culture we live in and it's not getting any better.


So while we try to remain positive, understand this is why many LEO's, CC permit holders / gun owners and others in our society are afraid, no matter what the "latest stats" say.

Last edited by shurshot; August 23, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
shurshot is offline  
Old August 23, 2012, 01:55 PM   #55
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,188
Quote:
It ain't a tattoo, you can undo it.
hey, I love my tattoos ok? all of them..




I don't know about the whole vest thing...
__________________
Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen
Constantine is offline  
Old August 24, 2012, 09:22 AM   #56
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Posts: 2,564
Whats more important to you, personal comfort day in day out, or personal protection? I like to draw the line somewhere in between. I value my comfort day in day out, so I carry a compact 9mm or a snub revolver vs a full size. Sure I value my life which is why I carry daily, but what's the point without quality of life.

I say ditch the vest while off-duty, sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old September 10, 2012, 11:47 PM   #57
rlara333
Junior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2012
Posts: 1
I don't understand

I think most people here are "into guns" because they feel they have a better chance to defend themselves with them then without. I can't see telling someone not to do something that can keep them in the fight. I say if you feel you can then do it.

PS. I joined the forum because Icouldn't believe you were being told not to do something you felt you should do to better defend yourself
rlara333 is offline  
Old September 11, 2012, 10:21 AM   #58
theinvisibleheart
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 19, 2005
Location: virtual internet world with a Daisy Red Ryder, LOL
Posts: 682
you need to take probability of risk into account.

Most police officers end up their whole career w/o one single shot being fired in course of duty.

Most CHL holders do not have to use their weapon.

For most folks, odds of automobile accident loom higher than the odds of having to use their firearm.

Risks more likely to happen is back pain/back injury due to duty belt and getting in and out of vehicle often, as well as obesity/being overweight, and obesity/heart problem due to stress.
theinvisibleheart is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08807 seconds with 9 queries