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Old August 29, 2012, 10:24 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Well, in Connecticut: "a person commits "home invasion" by entering or remaining unlawfully in an occupied home, with the intent to commit a crime."
Citation from Connecticut statute?

Irrespective of statutory language, in common parlance a "home invasion" is what occurs when a person or persons break into a house with the intention of taking the occupants hostage and either robbing the, beating them up, and/or killing them. In commonly accepted use, a burglar sneaking into your house and lifting the silver from the dining room sideboard while you sleep through it upstairs would be considered a "hot" burglary, but not a "home invasion."

Which is why, early in this thread, I commented that if you are involved in a home invasion (as the victim), you won't have to go looking for the invaders because they'll be all over you like bees on clover.
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Old August 29, 2012, 10:25 PM   #27
Brian Pfleuger
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Originally Posted by monkeyfist
Listen, I live in the country. Any invasion in my area is extremely rare, though it did happen not too long ago not too far away from my house.

I have no intention of "running towards an obvious threat". But I also have no intention of hiding in the corner of my bedroom for every type of noise that I may want to investigate.

Should I hide and call 911 for every little noise? No. I don't know what the noise is, therefore I want to see what the noise is, but calling 911 and hiding in my bedroom is somewhat extreme. It may be something as stupid as my hot water heater making an odd sound, but I don't feel I should hide in my bedroom waiting for something to manifest itself.

I'd find it extremely hard to go back to sleep until I found out where the noise came from, and a quick check would solve that. I believe just about anybody reacts in the same manner, armed or not.

Now, if I heard what I believed was obviously an intruder, I would not engage and would do just what you guys said.

That seems like such a strange argument.

Do you not know the noises that your house makes?

What sort of noises does your water heater make, particularly that you wouldn't recognize?

Every home has its unique creaks and pops. It usually takes living through a single years worth of humidity cycles to hear them all and have them fade into your subconscious.

My cat makes stupid noises sometimes, knocking things over or chasing a bell around, but those are also recognizable. Sometimes the dog whimpers in her sleep.

All these noises and more I recognize and I see no one suggesting calling 911 for every creaking board and whimpering dog, or alternately going to investigate every cat toy down the stairs with a flashlight and gun.

The point is, we usually know when something is wrong and going to confront that something is a bad choice, a choice that trained and knowledgable people avoid whenever possible and the rest of us would be wise to emulate.
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Old August 30, 2012, 08:19 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyfist
Listen, I live in the country. Any invasion in my area is extremely rare, though it did happen not too long ago not too far away from my house.

I have no intention of "running towards an obvious threat". But I also have no intention of hiding in the corner of my bedroom for every type of noise that I may want to investigate.

Should I hide and call 911 for every little noise? No. I don't know what the noise is, therefore I want to see what the noise is, but calling 911 and hiding in my bedroom is somewhat extreme. It may be something as stupid as my hot water heater making an odd sound, but I don't feel I should hide in my bedroom waiting for something to manifest itself.

I'd find it extremely hard to go back to sleep until I found out where the noise came from, and a quick check would solve that. I believe just about anybody reacts in the same manner, armed or not.

Now, if I heard what I believed was obviously an intruder, I would not engage and would do just what you guys said.
I've been in my apartment for about a year, and even so I will wake every now and again to some noise or another. But after a few seconds of listening, I can identify most. No, I do not think you should cower in a corner and call 911 for every odd sound (makes it much less likely anyone will show up if actually needed).

Criminals who have the skill to pick locks or are able to stealthily break into a home will likely be after more inviting targets. Now, sounds of glass breaking or other obvious signs that something is very wrong....
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Old August 30, 2012, 09:55 PM   #29
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Aquila: I WA home invasion is any unlawful entry when the owners are present, so, as in CN, if you open my door (I generally do not lock my doors) with the intent to burglarize, and i am home...it is home invasion by definition, no matter that the intent was only burglary and you did not know I was home.
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Old August 31, 2012, 05:15 AM   #30
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by hermannr
Aquila: I WA home invasion is any unlawful entry when the owners are present, so, as in CN, if you open my door (I generally do not lock my doors) with the intent to burglarize, and i am home...it is home invasion by definition, no matter that the intent was only burglary and you did not know I was home.
It appears I created a red herring by asking for the legal citation. The question pertains to CT, so what the law says in WA is irrelevant. But the real question was what CT law says about leaving the comparative safety of whatever room you're in when you hear something unusual, taking a firearm, and going off to search your house.

Getting back to that question, it appears the law has been quoted for CT and includes a duty to retreat, except within your home or place of business (NOTE: Not your place of "employment"). However, there is a difference between not retreating (i.e. staying where you are), and advancing toward real or prospective danger. And the CT law, as quoted in this thread, seems to be silent on that.

And that's why I posted above that the answer will probably have to come from an attorney in CT who can look up whether or not any case law has addressed the question of whether or not one can legally employ deadly force after advancing toward danger within one's own home.
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Old August 31, 2012, 03:59 PM   #31
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I believe you have a duty to retreat if it can be done safely. I will have to dig around a little before I can say that for certain. But, I believe that to be the case.
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Old August 31, 2012, 04:02 PM   #32
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Sec. 53a-100aa Home invasion: Class A felony. (a) A person is guilty of home invasion when such person enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling, while a person other than a participant in the crime is actually present in such dwelling, with intent to commit a crime therein, and, in the course of committing the offense: (1) Acting either alone or with one or more persons, such person or another participant in the crime commits or attempts to commit a felony against the person of another person other than a participant in the crime who is actually present in such dwelling, or (2) such person is armed with explosives or a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

(b) An act shall be deemed "in the course of committing" the offense if it occurs in an attempt to commit the offense or flight after the attempt or commission.

(c) Home invasion is a class A felony and any person found guilty under this section shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of which ten years may not be suspended or reduced by the court
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Old August 31, 2012, 05:06 PM   #33
Aguila Blanca
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Thank you, Conn. Trooper.

So it appears that not all "hot burglaries" in Connecticut qualify as "home invasions":

Quote:
Sec. 53a-100aa Home invasion: Class A felony. (a) A person is guilty of home invasion when such person enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling, while a person other than a participant in the crime is actually present in such dwelling, with intent to commit a crime therein, and, in the course of committing the offense: (1) Acting either alone or with one or more persons, such person or another participant in the crime commits or attempts to commit a felony against the person of another person other than a participant in the crime who is actually present in such dwelling, or (2) such person is armed with explosives or a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument.

(b) An act shall be deemed "in the course of committing" the offense if it occurs in an attempt to commit the offense or flight after the attempt or commission.

(c) Home invasion is a class A felony and any person found guilty under this section shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of which ten years may not be suspended or reduced by the court
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Old September 1, 2012, 08:51 PM   #34
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Yes Aguila Blanca, you are right, I think I may not have read the statute entirely.

BUT it does say "or (2) such person is armed with explosives or a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument".

So what I read is that even if they're not after you, as long as they have a deadly or even "dangerous" weapon, it's considered home invasion.

Now, what the hell is considered "dangerous"? A sharp pencil? A dull knife? Couldn't just about anything be dangerous if used right?
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Old September 1, 2012, 09:13 PM   #35
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BUT it does say "or (2) such person is armed with explosives or a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument".

So what I read is that even if they're not after you, as long as they have a deadly or even "dangerous" weapon, it's considered home invasion.

Now, what the hell is considered "dangerous"? A sharp pencil? A dull knife? Couldn't just about anything be dangerous if used right?
Yup. And the VAST majority of burglars have a pry-bar, full-on crowbar, hammer, heavy screwdriver or the like. Very few burglars know what to do with a lock-pick set which is about the only such tool that probably doesn't qualify as "dangerous instrument".

Any of the rest turn it into a home invasion.
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Old September 1, 2012, 09:28 PM   #36
Aguila Blanca
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Yes, I agree that part (2) of the "and" could be pretty all-encompassing, since almost anything that could even remotely be classified as a tool gets cited as "burglary tools" when the police catch a thief, and just abut any physical object becomes a "deadly weapon" when found in the possession of an assailant.

But -- it's not a case of anyone who enters your home while you are present is automatically deemed to be committing a "home invasion."
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Old September 3, 2012, 08:32 PM   #37
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As I read it you have to commit, or attempt to commit, a felony against a person in the residence, other than an actor in the crime. So, I would say a simple burglary, with or without weapons, would not automatically be a "home invasion". As I read it.
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Old September 3, 2012, 10:32 PM   #38
Aguila Blanca
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Nope. We have to keep track of the "ands" and "ors."

To be a "home invasion," step one is the perp has to enter a residence while it is occupied, with intent to commit a crime. AND the perp must also do one of two additional things:

(1) Commit or attempt a felony upon an occupant of the dwelling;

OR

(2) Be armed with explosives or a deadly weapon.

So ... a simple burglary of an UNoccupied dwelling would not be a home invasion no matter what weaponry the perp had with him. But a so-called "hot" burglary (a burglary of an occupied dwelling) would rise to the classification of "home invasion" if the perp is armed with explosives and/or deadly weapons, even if he didn't assault the occupants. Even if they were upstairs and slept through the whole thing, and the perp never went above the ground floor.
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Old September 4, 2012, 05:30 PM   #39
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Thats why I sit down and read the statutes to see what applies before I put pen to paper. I have not had a home invasion that I investigated in a while, since I went to day shift.
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Old September 6, 2012, 06:26 PM   #40
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Not necessarily even deadly, but "dangerous" according to the statute.
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Old September 7, 2012, 05:49 AM   #41
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by monkeyfist
Not necessarily even deadly, but "dangerous" according to the statute.
Correct.

And after doing some additional poking around in CT statutes on-line, I see that CT outlaws the carrying of even defensive weapons (and even describes them as "defensive" weapons) such as stun guns or police batons. That would be a problem for me -- I photograph firearms at ranges, and I carry a large box of photo props. Part of the props is a complete police duty belt rig, in case I do a (photo) shoot of a duty-type weapon. The duty belt includes handcuffs and a collapsing baton. I suppose in CT that could get me arrested as a terrorist trying to impersonate a cop.

The official Dade County Sheriff's Office Miami Vice replica badge probably wouldn't go over too well, either.
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