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Old August 21, 2012, 08:04 AM   #1
johnm1
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Mac 10 .45

I have the opportunity to shoot a friends new Mac 10 in .45 this weekend (select fire). Rather than use his ammo I was going to load 250 230 grain/800 FPS rounds. I have no way to crimp the primers in place and I assume that this isn't a problem.

Is is necessary to crimp the primers for full auto handloads? (not sure how I would accomplish that but I'm sure there is a way)

My normal load has a slight taper crimp on the bullet. Do I need to put a heavier taper crimp for full auto?

I have never fired or loaded for a weapon that was full auto before and I'd just like to be sure.

Thanks.
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:51 AM   #2
JT-AR-MG42
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No, you do not need to load the ammo any different than you would for your 1911. Your standard taper crimp -.472 -.473 - should be fine.

You should make sure that all the cases have the primers seated correctly. The MAC fires from an open bolt with a fixed firing pin and a high primer might ignite prematurely.

I use 185 and 200 gr. SWCs loaded to light target -675 fps -velocities almost exclusively with flawless feeding.
Saves lead and produces less recoil for newer/smaller shooters. The MAC seems to eat anything and it has a big appetite.

Since you mention not having been around automatics before, and you are shooting a buddy's gun, I'll just throw in two quick pieces of advice.

1. 'If in doubt, check it out'.
When automatics (or semis for that matter) stop firing, never assume the gun is either empty or clear to resume fire.
If you have a stoppage, it was for a reason. Find out why.
Remove the magazine and cock the gun to inspect the chamber condition while at the same time noting if an empty case was extracted. The bolt on a MAC will remain forward on an empty magazine - no hold open.
If rounds are remaining in the magazine, and only after the chamber has been cleared, inspect the barrel to ensure that a bullet is not lodged in the barrel.
I have seen guns with bulged barrels from this lack of caution.

2. Try not to enjoy yourself TOO much. Your wallet will thank you.

Have fun blasting with the Brick, JT
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Old August 21, 2012, 10:35 AM   #3
johnm1
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Thanks JT. Neither he nor I have shot one in full auto. So we are going to go real slow to begin with. I have spot where we have a 500 foot mountain as a backstop just in case. Your cautions are well taken.

I am used to loading for a Garand and I have a process when seating primers to feel each one for a seating depth below the case head. I flip it over in my hand and run my thumb across it before I put it in the container.

Thanks
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:45 PM   #4
MG-34
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I think you need to load a little more than 250 rounds.
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Old August 22, 2012, 12:30 AM   #5
David Hineline
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If in all your years of loading ammo you have ever stuck a bullet in a barrel keep in mind the man just paid $4000 for this gun and it will blow up faster on a bad reload then you can stop it.
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Old August 22, 2012, 12:47 AM   #6
JT-AR-MG42
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David,
I assume you are referring to my post?

Not real clear on it.

My comments were in regards to a squib load that did not cycle the gun.

No intent on my part for anything other than basic safety.

JT
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Old August 22, 2012, 10:12 AM   #7
johnm1
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I think David was directing his comment to me (the OP) and the basic use of handloads in a fully automatic weapon. And that point is well taken. I have managed to stick two in a barrel over 20 years ago. One on my wife's .380 auto and one in my old .41 magnum revolver. Both were primer/lubricant related. No damage but neither were full auto either. And I have made corrections in my loading procedure to keep that from happening again. I may well have 250 rounds that I will use in my 1911 instead of his Mac-10. Or his in a trade for some of the factory ammo he is buying for this weekend. He loads as well but has just recently started and isn't loading for the Mac-10 yet.

One thing I did think about as I was loading the first half of the 250 I plan on using this weekend. The load called for Federal 150 primers. As I recall, the Federal primers are one of the softest primers on the market. Is that a concern with a fixed firing pin?
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Old August 24, 2012, 01:11 PM   #8
Slopemeno
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I had some experience shooting a Powder Springs Mac 10 on full auto, and it ate everything, and I mean everything we threw in it- from ball, to 200 grain
SWC's , to some heavy bowling pin loads. No jams or any other issues.

And yes, bring as much ammo as you can carry- they're fun.
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Old August 24, 2012, 03:56 PM   #9
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Davids post sunk home. I went out a bought 600 rounds of WWB last night. If somethng happens to his firearm it won't be with one of my rounds in it. I now have 250 hand loads that I can use in my RIA double stack.

Thanks Slopemeno. I figured it would be set up to eat pretty much anything. My only concern was the fixed firing pin on what I think is a soft primer.
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Old August 26, 2012, 10:34 AM   #10
johnm1
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Man, you NFA guys get to have all of the fun. Beyond my $ limit but we were able to fire my friends Mac 10 yesterday. What a blast. It is configured in a short barreled rifle configuration and we found it very controllable using 2 and 3 round bursts. He even dumped a full mag at 20' and kept them all on target.

We had several jambs but I think they were all magazine related. Most of the magazines were 50 years old. We separated out the ones that jammed and all seemed well. He did try a couple of my hand loads and they worked fine. Overall a really good day. It's amazing how quick 500 round of .45 evaporated. Here is a video of my 18 year old daughter firing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6032394...in/photostream

Wish I had the money to join this club. Heck, even my wife enjoyed firing full auto.
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Old August 30, 2012, 10:27 PM   #11
David Hineline
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If you have matching furniture in your house, you could have afforded a machinegun.
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Old August 31, 2012, 05:13 PM   #12
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I never heard it put that way. But I get your point David. I've just spent way too much on surplus stuff this past year. I'm beginning to feel guilty (sort of).
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Old September 1, 2012, 09:22 PM   #13
JT-AR-MG42
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Looks like she had a good time with it!
Just remember to have her stand leaning forward a bit with her weight centered on the left leg over the slightly bent left knee.
That will give her much better control over the gun's recoil forces and allow her to pound the target that much better.
I always make new FA shooters understand and assume that stance before I load the gun in their hands.

That also looks to be a slow fire kit on the MAC?
Mine is just the standard bullet hose although I made a more comfortable stock out of a wood FAL stock.

I understand your feelings on using your reloads in a friend's gun. Just one less complication should a problem arise. Only my few best friends shoot any of their reloads through my guns.

LOLs on David's analogy. My living room will not be featured in next months - or any other months - issue of Better Homes and Gardens!

JT
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Old September 2, 2012, 01:21 AM   #14
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I do not shoot any reloads through my machineguns. It is simply not worth it. Even if you haven't made a mistake in 20 years, doesn't mean you can't now. If you destroy the registered part of your Machinegun (frame, registered sear, DIAS or other registered conversion), it is history. ATF will not let you replace it.
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Old September 2, 2012, 01:26 AM   #15
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BTW, the only furniture in my house is an office chair and a recliner.
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Old September 2, 2012, 08:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Even if you haven't made a mistake in 20 years, doesn't mean you can't now.
While that is true, major companies can make mistakes too. In the last ten years I have had two squib loads, both from Hornady. I have seen the QC on Winchester ammo go down hill with uncrimped 9mms. Also a S&B .223 round with no primer.
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Old September 2, 2012, 09:07 AM   #17
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Yep. But their ratio of ammo manufacture to bad ammo is a lot better than mine.
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Old September 2, 2012, 12:17 PM   #18
johnm1
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It is a heavier bolt in a different upper. Very easy to control. We had her shoot some semi first and then loaded just a few for her first time in full. That video (not posted) shows her being pushed back and almost falling backwards by the repeated recoil. That's why we only loaded 4 for her first time.

If it were mine I figure I would have to reload for it. I don't have to make that decision though. It wasn't worth it for this outing.
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Old September 3, 2012, 06:54 PM   #19
poprivit
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Macs, S&W 76, Stemple 76/45

Couple of thoughts on full auto weapons.:

1. Factory, or milsurp ammo only. Lots of milsurp!
2. MAC - get the imitation suppressor on the barrel. It keeps new shooters from sliding a finger up too high.
3. My Stemple cost $6000. I do reload 45, but won't ever use them in it.
4. If you can think of something more fun than watching a woman shoot a full auto - your brain and mine work differently.
5. Only load 3-4 rounds for new shooters. I've seen cases of finger-lock-down -itus with a full magazine. Having this happen and the shooter turn in your direction will stay with you forever.
6. If you think a MAC 10 .45 is fun, go play with a MAC 11 .380. Whooeeee - 1300-1500 rpm. Empty a mag in 1.3 seconds.
7. Most FTF problems with a MAC come from a badly worn ejector, or bent, misaligned mag lips.

I've written for Small Arms Review and owned 27 MGs from Thompson to 1919A4. Never had so much fun in my life as I did shooting a MAC.
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