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Old July 23, 2012, 08:05 PM   #1
Sisilija 55
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Colt -revolver what is it???

Colt -revolver what is it??? Top of the barrel it says Colt's PT F A mfg co hartford ct patent aug 5 1884. Nov 6 88 mar 5 95

on the side of the barrel colt D A 38 matching serial numbers K7523

cylinder has the initials r.a.c.

Left side of gun has 2 sets of initials r.a.c.behind hammer. Above the wood grip has l.e.b.

6 shot cylinder ..small chip in the wood grip see attached photos any help would be appreciated.. I have more pictures I can send..
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Old July 23, 2012, 09:29 PM   #2
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Just a guess, but probably either a New Army or New Navy in .38 Long Colt. That was the standard issue U.S. Military handgun through the Spanish-American War and Philippine Insurrection and was replaced with the Colt Model 1909 New Service in .45 Long Colt and subsequently the M1911 in .45 ACP due to dissatisfaction with the performance of the .38 Long Colt Cartridge against Moro Tribesmen in the Philippines.
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Old July 23, 2012, 09:41 PM   #3
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It is an Army Model of 1894 that has been heavily buffed and badly reblued and had later Colt wood grips installed instead of the uncheckered military grips. Those guns are rather fragile and give quite a bit of trouble when subjected to use. Further, parts are scarce and few (if any) gunsmiths today understand them. That model was chambered for .38 Long Colt and should NOT be fired with .38 Special, even if the longer cartridge will fit.

RAC is Army inspector Rinaldo A. Carr; LEB is Leroy E. Briggs, another Army inspector.

K7523 is not the serial number, it is an assembly number. The serial number should be on the bottom of the grip, along with the legend:
U.S.
ARMY
MODEL
1894
NO
xx
xxx

If that number is not there, it has been removed and the gun is illegal to own.

Those guns originally had no lanyard loop, but many were updated to include one.

Jim
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Old July 23, 2012, 11:00 PM   #4
Sisilija 55
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Bottom of grip marked U.S. ARMY 1901 No.7523
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Old July 23, 2012, 11:24 PM   #5
4V50 Gary
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What Jim K says. It's a New DA Army Revolver. It's on pages 241-242 of James Serven's Colt Firearms
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Old July 24, 2012, 07:42 PM   #6
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My bad, and I apologize. It is a Model 1901, not a Model 1894. The other information is correct.

But the butt marking should include the word "MODEL" and a Model 1901 should have a serial number in the 166xxx - 199xxx range on the butt in two lines. Could you show a picture of the butt marking?

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Old July 31, 2012, 10:09 AM   #7
Sisilija 55
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pictures of the bottom...
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Old August 1, 2012, 11:32 AM   #8
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Those are pretty poor pictures, but they seem to bear out what you said. The problem is that the Model 1901 should not have a four digit serial number (numbers were in the 166xxx - 199xxx range and were always stamped on the butt in two rows of three numbers each.

I would like to see better and closeup pictures of that butt marking; there is something odd with that gun.

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Old August 1, 2012, 06:49 PM   #9
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The numbers have been re-stamped, and done by hand. Note the irregular spacing and line.
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Old August 1, 2012, 07:59 PM   #10
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I suspect that someone, many years ago, maybe filed the serial number off that gun. Then maybe someone else, possibly aware of the penalty for possession of a gun with the serial number removed, used the assembly number to "restore" the serial number. Maybe not "kosher" but the old gun has a serial number and that is what is important. (It is a sort of a matter of opinion if it is the number it had originally.) Nuff sed.

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Old August 3, 2012, 11:17 AM   #11
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Gone back to owner

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Old August 20, 2012, 11:19 AM   #12
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I THINK THERE ARE MORE 4 DIGIT SER. # OUTSIDE THE published serial number ranges. I've saw another K prefix 3 AND 4 digit number on several of the auction sites...
I found this on the:
Springfield Armory Museum - Collection Record

Title: REVOLVER - COLT REVOLVER MODEL 1901 DA ARMY .38 SN# 2364
Maker/Manufacturer: COLT
Date of Manufacture: 1901-1907
Eminent Figure:
Catalog Number: SPAR 1885
Measurements: OL: 30.4CM 12" BL: 15.2CM 6"


Object Description:

COLT REVOLVER MODEL 1901 DA ARMY .38 SN# 2364
Manufactured by Colt, Hartford, Ct. - Standard 6-shot DA Model 1901 Army revolver with swing-out cylinder and smooth walnut grips. Blued finish. Weapon identical to the M1896 except for addition of an oblong lanyard swivel at the butt. Blade steel front, rear sight cut into frame.

Markings:
Barrel: COLT'S PT. F.A. MFG. CO., HARTFORD CT. U.S.A./PATENTED AUG. 5, 1884, NOV. 6, 88, MAR. 5, 95. (Left): COLT D.A. 38.
Cylinder latch: K/2364
Buttstrap: U.S./ARMY/MODEL/1901/2364.
Grips: RAC
Frame: RAC & L.E.B. Indicates a Remington rework for home guard. 3/2364. RAC = Rinaldo A. Carr. LEB = Leroy E. Briggs.
Cylinder yoke: Z 2364.

Notes: "Special Report of New Work undertaken and New Supplies issued for Service. #46. April 1, 1902....SUGGESTION THAT CYLINDER OF REGULATION REVOLVER OPEN TO THE RIGHT. There was originally a diversity of opinion among Cavalry officers as to which was the better method, the right or left hand opening, but in 1894 it was decided that the cylinder should open to the left, as it was considered that by opening as it now does it allows the use of the right hand in throwing out the cylinder and replacing it." O.O. Letter No. 38078-7.
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Old August 20, 2012, 12:02 PM   #13
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Check out proofhouse.com

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Old August 20, 2012, 04:14 PM   #14
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Two things cause confusion with those guns. One is the presence of the assembly number, which is quite prominent and often taken for the serial number, even when the serial number is present. That can lead to errors in record keeping.

The other is what I mentioned, that military personnel sometimes "liberated" their guns (Shock!! Hhorror!! Would our gallant soldiers do that???) and ground or filed the butt markings and true serial number off. That left only the assembly number, and sometimes that was used to replace the serial number on the butt.

FWIW, I have seen two of those guns with the butt marking removed, so I have to think it was a fairly common practice.

Jim
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Old August 21, 2012, 09:39 AM   #15
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Colt Officers Model Target 38 Special CTG

Can anyone help me with value and vintage of this Colt Officers Model Target 38 , SN 780XXX with an 8 under the SN? I purchased from my uncle recently, and he thought it was a S&W. I looked last evening and saw it is Colt, with identification mentioned. I appreciate any help. Looking for when it was made how much worth, any history...it is in very good shape, no nicks. Plastic handles.
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Old August 23, 2012, 11:09 AM   #16
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I have had good luck on colt forums getting info and the colt site.

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Old August 23, 2012, 02:03 PM   #17
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Serial numbers on those guns are confusing, to say the least, but as far as I can tell, that gun was made in 1950. No way to tell value without good pictures.

(The "8" under the serial is an inspection mark, not part of the serial number.)

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