Colorado University to Segregate Dorm for Students with Gun Permits

jimpeel · August 17, 2012, 01:11 AM

The University of Colorado Boulder and University of Colorado at Colorado Springs are going to set up dormitories that are strictly for CCW licensees. They will be segregated from the rest of the student body. All other dorms will be declared off limits to firearms and CCW licensees.

CCW licensees will also be banned from all events on campus. Where tickets are sold, they will state contractually that anyone with a CCW will not bring their firearms to those events. Those persons who are CCW licensees will be treated as a pariah.

SOURCE

Quote:

CU to segregate dorms for students with concealed carry permits
Posted: 08/16/2012 10:27:52 AM MDT
Updated: 08/16/2012 03:45:47 PM MDT
By Ryan Parker
The Denver Post

The University of Colorado Boulder and University of Colorado at Colorado Springs are amending their student housing contracts, segregating students who possess a valid concealed weapons carry permit.

...

In addition, attendees at ticketed athletic and cultural events, such as football games and theater, on both campuses, will not be permitted to bring their guns, officials said.

<MORE>

CWKahrFan · August 17, 2012, 01:23 AM

Very interesting... Thanks for the info...

Quote:

Those persons who are CCW licensees will be treated as a pariah.

I don't see that happening IN GENERAL... As with so many various groups on campuses, some will like, some won't, some will be indifferent.

CCWers will, however, be more easily indentifiable simply due to the dorm they live in... that's unfortunate.

BarryLee · August 17, 2012, 01:42 AM

I’m not really sure if this makes the CCW Dorm more of a target for criminals or not. On one hand we know the residents are armed, but on the other hand you know they often are forced to leave the gun in their room.

jimpeel · August 17, 2012, 01:52 AM

The policy is that they must have the firearms locked away in a safe unless it is on their person.

What's next -- special counters in the cafeteria and seating in the back of the campus shuttle bus? Well, the joke will be on them. CCW holders already sit at the back of the bus so they can see any threats.

Jim March · August 17, 2012, 04:59 AM

You know...this could backfire in our favor. Give it a couple of years and then tally up the violence rates in our dorms versus the rest

.

spacecoast · August 17, 2012, 06:36 AM

I see it as a first step toward normalizing CCW on campus. A foot in the door...

foxytwo · August 17, 2012, 07:09 AM

The dorm for ccw carriers is not on campus but downtown. I don't know how far it is to the campus, but they may be putting an extra burden on them to reduce, or eliminate, the number of people that want to carry on campus.

More information is needed.

Crosshair · August 17, 2012, 07:49 AM

People tend to segregate on their own. The problem always has been government mandated segregation. We all discriminate in some form or another.

I kind of like Jim March's idea. By segregating CCW holders it will provide a wealth of statistics comparing CCW holders to non CCW holders and odds are it will come out in our favor.

vranasaurus · August 17, 2012, 07:49 AM

Is the age for a permit in CO 21? From my college experience the vast majority of people living in college housing are under 21.

I don't have a problem with requiring firearms be secured when the owner or roommate (if trusted) is not present as securing firearms in such situations is prudent and the communal nature of dorms increases the risk of theft.

Before anyone jumps on me secured could be as simple as locking ones door as most "safes" (read residential security containers) are really not all that secure.

FloridaVeteran · August 17, 2012, 08:16 AM

This reminds me of the old question, "How many mass shootings have there been at gun shows?" I'd live in the CCW dorm. I'm so old that when I was in college, concealed carry hadn't been addressed. Not many students did carry, because there was no perceived need, but it was no big deal and many of us had one or more guns in our rooms. Back then, romancing usually had to be in a car, in a lonely spot and after dark, so I darn sure always had a revolver close at hand. I never needed it, but it was very reassuring.

g.willikers · August 17, 2012, 09:39 AM

It seems that the easiest way to get education administrators confuzzled is to ask them to reason out a solution to a problem.

Hazborgufen · August 17, 2012, 09:43 AM

Anyone making a "back of the bus" comment or comparing this to lunch counter segregation is clearly dense or didn't read the article. This isn't some kind of Jim Crow law against CCW holders and nobody is going to be the next Rosa Parks or of gun rights here. Don't be minimizing the accomplishments of the civil rights movement by trying to compare this story to it.

This is clearly an accommodation for the tiny fraction of people over the age of 21 who want to keep their firearms in their dorm rooms. The fraction is tiny because most people by that age are living in a private apartment.
This story is a good thing as it is at least an effort at compromise. Allowing firearms on school property is huge.

Take a step back and realize you are jumping at phantoms here.

Don H · August 17, 2012, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazborgufen

This story is a good thing as it is at least an effort at compromise. Allowing firearms on school property is huge.

There is no compromise here. The University is not "allowing" firearms on campus. Firearms on campus in Colorado has been legal for several years. The University doesn't have a choice in the matter. The University's segregating of permit holders is in fact a step backwards as the school pushes back against a law they strenuously resisted in court. This is just plain harassment of permit holders and I forsee a lawsuit challenging these baseless school requirements in the near future.

**Mike Irwin** · August 17, 2012, 10:15 AM

I wonder how long it will be until someone challenges this based on the precepts of Brown vs. Board of Education finding that "separate but equal" facilities and strict segregation of a class of individuals to those facilities is inherehently unequal.

This could get interesting.

**Spats McGee** · August 17, 2012, 10:21 AM

"Separate but equal" was my first thought, as well. On the flip side of that, though, concealed carry permit holders are not a protected class.

**Glenn E. Meyer** · August 17, 2012, 10:22 AM

I think it is a good thing as a first step, that leads to the challenges mentioned below.

Protected class sounds good to me - that would void the bans allowed by businesses and employers. I'm for that.

Gary L. Griffiths · August 17, 2012, 10:37 AM

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...le+Feedfetcher

Forced by the Colorado Supreme Court to allow students with concealed weapons permits to carry on campus, Colorado University now proposes to segregate such students in separate living facilities, will continue to ban possession in all other residences.

Can't be too careful -- look at all the massacres at Colorado State after they allowed concealed carry on campus.

kfd82 · August 17, 2012, 10:39 AM

Reading the article, the vice president of the Board of Regents calls student housing 'essentially landlord-tenant' in relationship. Shouldn't this allow the students the normal protections afforded tenants of rental properties? Modifying the housing contract prior to signing (initial any changes) comes to mind...

Rachen · August 17, 2012, 10:43 AM

This is making shivers run up and down my spine...

Goes to show that the elitist extremist ideology, the same ideology which promoted segregation and violent racism in this country until the 1970s, is still alive in the minds of those who want to impose total control on the population.

This issue must be made viral online so everyone will know about it.

Our opposing voices must be strong and solid, or these elitists are going to win by incrementalism again.

cannonfire · August 17, 2012, 10:46 AM

Already under discussion in the Law and Civil Rights forum...

http://http://thefiringline.com/foru...d.php?t=498563

**Brian Pfleuger** · August 17, 2012, 10:47 AM

Thread merge....

scrubcedar · August 17, 2012, 11:44 AM

You have to understand who is involved here. This is CU Boulder, proudly situated in the peoples republic of Boulder. These people refer to communists as "those right wing nut jobs"

This the place where Ward Churchill taught and was well loved. Look a little deeper into the politics of the people involved here and tell me that there was no malign intent, I'll listen, but since I do know them I can't promise not to laugh.

Hazborgufen · August 17, 2012, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don H

There is no compromise here. The University is not "allowing" firearms on campus. Firearms on campus in Colorado has been legal for several years. The University doesn't have a choice in the matter. The University's segregating of permit holders is in fact a step backwards as the school pushes back against a law they strenuously resisted in court. This is just plain harassment of permit holders and I forsee a lawsuit challenging these baseless school requirements in the near future.

I'll admit that I was unaware of the intricacies of Colorado's CCW laws. Living outside of Chicago, we don't have CCW laws, let alone any public debate over campus carry. So I am out of my element in that regard. I can totally understand the frustration of having new laws or policies passed as a "reasonable accommodation" which are anything but. I've posted extensively about the ridiculous nature of the Chicago ordinance that was passed in response to the Heller decision. So for that I apologize.

I still maintain that the wild hysterics and comparison to Jim Crow era segregation it's just plain distasteful at best and counter productive at worst. To the average person, seeing comments saying that only allowing guns in specific dorms is akin to segregated lunch counters comes off as lunacy, particularly since "gun owner" isn't a protected class. If it ever does become one, then people can validly make the comparison, but until then I feel that those types of comments only serve to hurt gun owners' image. And since that image can translate into votes leading to more gun control, I would say that it is very much in our best interest not to come off as lunatics.

Bringing it back to living in my area of Illinois, it is really hard to debate the validity of gun ownership in general, let alone concealed carry. Having people automatically dismiss the argument because of their preconceived image of "gun nuts" is pretty common. So all I can say is that adding to that image is really not helping.

**Brian Pfleuger** · August 17, 2012, 12:48 PM

There was a time when "race" and gender weren't protected classes. Should people have waited until they WERE protected in order to protest discrimination?

Seems like putting the horse behind the cart... and then saying you can't put the horse in front until you have agreement from the anti-horse people that it belongs there.

In other words, if WE don't act like a "protected class" how are we ever going to convince anyone else that we should be?

raimius · August 17, 2012, 01:15 PM

Hazborgufen, would you object if your landlord told you that you could only live in the corner apartment, if you had a FOID card? That's essentially the case here.

August 17, 2012, 01:42 AM	#3
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 2,095	I’m not really sure if this makes the CCW Dorm more of a target for criminals or not. On one hand we know the residents are armed, but on the other hand you know they often are forced to leave the gun in their room. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

August 17, 2012, 01:52 AM	#4
jimpeel Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: Longmont, CO, USA Posts: 4,391	The policy is that they must have the firearms locked away in a safe unless it is on their person. What's next -- special counters in the cafeteria and seating in the back of the campus shuttle bus? Well, the joke will be on them. CCW holders already sit at the back of the bus so they can see any threats. __________________ Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey

August 17, 2012, 04:59 AM	#5
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,014	You know...this could backfire in our favor. Give it a couple of years and then tally up the violence rates in our dorms versus the rest . __________________ Jim March

August 17, 2012, 06:36 AM	#6
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 3,391	I see it as a first step toward normalizing CCW on campus. A foot in the door... __________________ My guns include S&W and Colt revolvers, Colt and Ruger pistols, Remington 870 shotgun, Henry and Marlin .22LR rifles, Hi-Point 9mm carbine and Lancaster Arms AK. I reload handgun rounds with a Lee hand press, over 18K rounds since Nov. 2009 with nary a squib nor kaboom.

August 17, 2012, 07:49 AM	#8
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,319	People tend to segregate on their own. The problem always has been government mandated segregation. We all discriminate in some form or another. I kind of like Jim March's idea. By segregating CCW holders it will provide a wealth of statistics comparing CCW holders to non CCW holders and odds are it will come out in our favor. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

August 17, 2012, 07:09 AM	#7
foxytwo Member Join Date: June 24, 2010 Posts: 94	The dorm for ccw carriers is not on campus but downtown. I don't know how far it is to the campus, but they may be putting an extra burden on them to reduce, or eliminate, the number of people that want to carry on campus. More information is needed.

August 17, 2012, 07:49 AM	#9
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,145	Is the age for a permit in CO 21? From my college experience the vast majority of people living in college housing are under 21. I don't have a problem with requiring firearms be secured when the owner or roommate (if trusted) is not present as securing firearms in such situations is prudent and the communal nature of dorms increases the risk of theft. Before anyone jumps on me secured could be as simple as locking ones door as most "safes" (read residential security containers) are really not all that secure.

August 17, 2012, 08:16 AM	#10
FloridaVeteran Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 399	This reminds me of the old question, "How many mass shootings have there been at gun shows?" I'd live in the CCW dorm. I'm so old that when I was in college, concealed carry hadn't been addressed. Not many students did carry, because there was no perceived need, but it was no big deal and many of us had one or more guns in our rooms. Back then, romancing usually had to be in a car, in a lonely spot and after dark, so I darn sure always had a revolver close at hand. I never needed it, but it was very reassuring.

August 17, 2012, 09:39 AM	#11
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 2,513	It seems that the easiest way to get education administrators confuzzled is to ask them to reason out a solution to a problem. __________________ Lock the doors, they're coming in the windows.

August 17, 2012, 09:43 AM	#12
Hazborgufen Member Join Date: May 6, 2010 Posts: 23	Anyone making a "back of the bus" comment or comparing this to lunch counter segregation is clearly dense or didn't read the article. This isn't some kind of Jim Crow law against CCW holders and nobody is going to be the next Rosa Parks or of gun rights here. Don't be minimizing the accomplishments of the civil rights movement by trying to compare this story to it. This is clearly an accommodation for the tiny fraction of people over the age of 21 who want to keep their firearms in their dorm rooms. The fraction is tiny because most people by that age are living in a private apartment. This story is a good thing as it is at least an effort at compromise. Allowing firearms on school property is huge. Take a step back and realize you are jumping at phantoms here.

August 17, 2012, 10:15 AM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,097	I wonder how long it will be until someone challenges this based on the precepts of Brown vs. Board of Education finding that "separate but equal" facilities and strict segregation of a class of individuals to those facilities is inherehently unequal. This could get interesting. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 17, 2012, 10:21 AM	#15
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,305	"Separate but equal" was my first thought, as well. On the flip side of that, though, concealed carry permit holders are not a protected class. __________________ A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills. If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman

August 17, 2012, 10:22 AM	#16
Glenn E. Meyer Staff Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 13,132	I think it is a good thing as a first step, that leads to the challenges mentioned below. Protected class sounds good to me - that would void the bans allowed by businesses and employers. I'm for that. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm Being an Academic Shooter http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm Being an Active Shooter

August 17, 2012, 10:37 AM	#17
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: On The Road, somewhere in the good ol' US of A. Posts: 1,108	Colorado University to Segregate Dorm for Students with Gun Permits http://content.usatoday.com/communit...le+Feedfetcher Forced by the Colorado Supreme Court to allow students with concealed weapons permits to carry on campus, Colorado University now proposes to segregate such students in separate living facilities, will continue to ban possession in all other residences. Can't be too careful -- look at all the massacres at Colorado State after they allowed concealed carry on campus. __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own personal safety; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths, Chief Instructor, Advanced Force Tactics, Inc. (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

August 17, 2012, 10:39 AM	#18
kfd82 Junior Member Join Date: October 7, 2011 Posts: 3	Reading the article, the vice president of the Board of Regents calls student housing 'essentially landlord-tenant' in relationship. Shouldn't this allow the students the normal protections afforded tenants of rental properties? Modifying the housing contract prior to signing (initial any changes) comes to mind...

August 17, 2012, 10:43 AM	#19
Rachen Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: I go where the oilfield jobs go. Posts: 311	This is making shivers run up and down my spine... Goes to show that the elitist extremist ideology, the same ideology which promoted segregation and violent racism in this country until the 1970s, is still alive in the minds of those who want to impose total control on the population. This issue must be made viral online so everyone will know about it. Our opposing voices must be strong and solid, or these elitists are going to win by incrementalism again. __________________ http://unnamed-heroes.com MARTYRS: A story about true love. Every man has something that he is willing to fight to the death for. What about YOU? COMBAT BLADES: http://www.knifecombat.wordpress.com

August 17, 2012, 10:46 AM	#20
cannonfire Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2010 Location: Georgia Posts: 473	Already under discussion in the Law and Civil Rights forum... http://http://thefiringline.com/foru...d.php?t=498563 __________________ Segui il tuo corso e lascia dir le genti - Dante Blaming guns for crime is like blaming the planes for 9/11

August 17, 2012, 10:47 AM	#21
Brian Pfleuger Staff Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Central, Southern NY, USA Posts: 14,454	Thread merge.... __________________ Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza. --- You do not HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body. -C.S. Lewis He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose. -Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

August 17, 2012, 11:44 AM	#22
scrubcedar Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2012 Location: Northern UT Posts: 470	You have to understand who is involved here. This is CU Boulder, proudly situated in the peoples republic of Boulder. These people refer to communists as "those right wing nut jobs" This the place where Ward Churchill taught and was well loved. Look a little deeper into the politics of the people involved here and tell me that there was no malign intent, I'll listen, but since I do know them I can't promise not to laugh. __________________ Gaily bedight, A gallant knight In sunshine and in shadow, Had journeyed long, Singing a song, In search of El Dorado

August 17, 2012, 12:48 PM	#24
Brian Pfleuger Staff Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Central, Southern NY, USA Posts: 14,454	There was a time when "race" and gender weren't protected classes. Should people have waited until they WERE protected in order to protest discrimination? Seems like putting the horse behind the cart... and then saying you can't put the horse in front until you have agreement from the anti-horse people that it belongs there. In other words, if WE don't act like a "protected class" how are we ever going to convince anyone else that we should be? __________________ Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza. --- You do not HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body. -C.S. Lewis He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose. -Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

August 17, 2012, 01:15 PM	#25
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 1,152	Hazborgufen, would you object if your landlord told you that you could only live in the corner apartment, if you had a FOID card? That's essentially the case here.