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Old August 11, 2012, 11:31 PM   #1
bailey bud
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3 gun first time

Well --- just learned the difference between target shooting and tactical training!

I've been shooting for about 15 years --- mostly shotgun, rimfire pistol, and rimfire rifle. I can shoot centerfire rifle --- but usually in hunting type situations (.30-06).

I'd consider myself a reasonably good shot.

Just tried a 3-gun course, today ---- and got my butt kicked!

I actually scored very high on target precision (2nd highest, in fact out of 10) -However, I was destroyed on:
- ammo management (ending up with the correct number of rounds, even with mandatory magazine changes)
- speed (I'm a target shooter --- I take my time)
- re-loading (time added for reloading in the open without cover)

I admit ---- I'm not a fan of tactical shooting ---- but it made me realize that I'm not as prepared as I've always thought I was.

Sure - I can hit a plate at 200 yards sitting at a bench. However I'm not quite as good at hitting a zombie at 50 yards while in motion.

If you guys haven't tried it ---- I'd recommend it.
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Old August 12, 2012, 09:10 PM   #2
Hook686
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When are you going to have to, [QUOTE][hitting a zombie at 50 yards while in motion/QUOTE]

From my view point 3 gun matches and similar are great practice for LEOs and SWAT types, but while a change in pace from plain old target shooting, I really seriously doubt I'll ever get into that kind of gun fighting.

I personally believe I am well served by practicing trigger control and rapid target acquision. Different stokes for different folks. Though I did find the 3 gun match more enjoyable than a round of golf.
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Old August 12, 2012, 09:45 PM   #3
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But you had a damn good time didn't you?!
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Old August 13, 2012, 12:54 AM   #4
aphdmansoc
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I think this kind of exercise might be fun but not likely to develop useful survival skills for a civilian.

I think folks would be better off practicing:
* double and triple taps
* point shooting
* target acquisition
* multiple target shots
* head shots
* turn and shoot drills
* tactical awareness
* reloading weapon
* drawing and firing backup gun
* movement off X
* identifying opportunities for cover and concealment
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Old August 13, 2012, 08:37 AM   #5
kraigwy
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I'm in the same boat, been shooting action type pistols pretty heavy the last three years or so and I suck at it.

Accuracy wise, I do good, but when it comes to loading, I suck. But I've never been one for "spray and pray" And at 65 I'm not a fast mover.

Add to that I shoot revolvers, I can't compete in the loading department using speed loaders against 15 or more rounds in a semi.

Rifle I can hold my own. Although I've been known to screw that up. Last year we had 5 good guy targets and 5 bad guy targets, suppose to be a hostage situation. A got some great groups on each hostage target. Wasn't too bad until they found out I was a sniper when I was in LE.

My favorite is ICORE, we all have to use revolvers. Want to really learn to shot your carry gun, shoot an ICORE match with a 642 loading loose rounds from your pocket. Your scores wont be high, but you'll gain confidence in your CC revolver.

We have some weird stages. One earlier this year we were given a block time of 20 seconds. Every target you hit deducted 5 seconds. If you shot pass the time limit they added 10 seconds per shot. Being old and can't hear, I couldn't hear the shot timer telling me to stop and shot two rounds after the buzzard. They didn't deduct from misses.

I would have had a better score if I set in the truck and didn't fire a shot.

Regardless, we shoot for fun more then any thing else. Great bunch of guys and gals. I'll stick to concentrating on accuracy more then speed, I'll never be at the top of the result bulletin but I feel better about it.
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Old August 13, 2012, 01:32 PM   #6
raimius
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I don't know that I would call 3-gun competitions "tactical training," but they do utilize some similar techniques. Rapid target acquisition, transition, movement, firearms manipulation, etc are common to both. That makes competitions a good test of whether you are as good as you think you are!

Most competitions fail to differentiate between cover and concealment. Most competitors use cover quickly rather than correctly. Some gamesmanship may or may not actually be wise in a tactical situation (mandated "tactical reloads" being quite controversial.)
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Old August 13, 2012, 02:49 PM   #7
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raimius
I don't know that I would call 3-gun competitions "tactical training," ...
And it really isn't tactical training, BUT --

Practical shooting like 3-gun, USPSA or IDPA is a great way to practice under stress important and useful basic skills like moving with a loaded gun, shooting quickly and accurately, engaging multiple targets, target identification and quick target acquisition, moving and shooting or shooting while moving, shooting from unconventional postures and positions, reloading, etc.
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Old August 13, 2012, 11:56 PM   #8
Sefner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ettin
Practical shooting like 3-gun, USPSA or IDPA is a great way to practice under stress important and useful basic skills...
So much this. You will learn a ton about yourself when you do competitive shooting. Adrenaline does weird things to people. I've seen people try to load magazines in upside down, I've seen people double tap hostages because "they looked like bad guys", I've seen people totally miss bad guys because they were tunnel visioned, I've seen people drop magazines on the ground and not remember doing it. Funny thing is when you tell people they did something they will not believe you until you show them:

Dude you shot a hostage
There was no hostage on this stage
Right here man
I didn't even see it
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Old August 14, 2012, 01:43 AM   #9
MarkDozier
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LOL Frank, That is exactly what tactical training does. It make you think about how you act and shoot while doing target identification and a bunch of other stuff. Way to often ppl say tactical training like it is some great mystical special thing.
A tatic is - a plan, procedure, or expedient for promoting a desired end or result.
So yes 3 gun matches are to a degree tactical training.
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Old August 14, 2012, 02:00 AM   #10
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDozier
...That is exactly what tactical training does. It make you think about how you act and shoot while doing target identification and a bunch of other stuff. Way to often ppl say tactical training like it is some great mystical special thing.
A tatic is - a plan, procedure, or expedient for promoting a desired end or result.
So yes 3 gun matches are to a degree tactical training....
Short and sweet -- not exactly.

I've competed in USPSA matches and I've trained at Gunsite and with various instructors like Louis Awerbuck and Massad Ayoob. They are different. One learns different things in different ways. But they are complimentary. One is wise to pursue both.

Good training lays the foundation, but most folks can't really manage to go to school more often than once or a few times a year. On the other hand, in many places one can shoot a USPSA or IDPA match once or twice a month.
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Old August 16, 2012, 05:16 PM   #11
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Sounds like fun.
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