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Old August 1, 2012, 04:47 PM   #26
SC4006
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well i certainly got the answer to my question none the less... thanks for all the replies again. if they weren't sold out i'd definitely be buying some of that .22 ammo, oh well.
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Old August 1, 2012, 05:01 PM   #27
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My dad was trained on a 1911 converted to .22 while in the Navy.
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Old August 1, 2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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I don't remember who made the ammo but I shot quite a bit of .22lr out of single shot rifles on a shooting team with the Tennessee Army NG back in the Eighties.
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Old August 1, 2012, 09:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
I don't remember who made the ammo but I shot quite a bit of .22lr out of single shot rifles on a shooting team with the Tennessee Army NG back in the Eighties.
If they came in Green boxes they were Remington, if they came in White boxes they were Wincherster.

Unless of course you got some special civilian manufactored ammo.

In the early 80s (forgot exactly what year) my unit won the CNGB Postal match using the M16a1 and the sub-cal device. We were flown to Nashville, (the Hqrs of the NG MTU before they moved to Little Rock),

We were issued Remington Green Box which functioned quite well in the sub-cal devices.
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Old August 1, 2012, 10:08 PM   #30
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During WWII in the Alutian Island invasion by the Japanese, there existed a lagistics problem. Seems the islands were so large no individual could carry enough food to actually travel the distances required to spy on the Japs. The militaries solution was to employ an outfit called Castners Cutthroats. These were mainly Alaskan sourdoughs and outdoorsmen familiar with the wild places. When asked what they need to go on extended inland reconisence missions, the one thing every cutthroat was supplied was a 22 handgun. This allowed the reco guys to secure needed food in a lightweight quiet gun. Google Castners Cutthroats and look at some photos and you will see their 22 pistols.
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Old August 2, 2012, 01:14 AM   #31
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I still have, and occasionally shoot (against my Colt collector friend's advice) a Service Model Ace .22lr that presumably was used to train Army troops sometime prior to the early 1950s (it was bought as surplus from the Army). It was the first semi-auto I ever shot, handed down by my dad around 1956. There seem to be modern equivalents available. They give the heft of a 1911 and ammo costs of near-zero compared to the ACP rounds. There was also a civilian version and a fair number come up for sale on Gunbroker. The downside is that real military Aces are expensive, so while there is a "cool" factor, the cost sorta defeats the advantage of cheap ammo. But it was a very creative solution for its original purpose. I was surprised that a puny little .22 cartridge could cycle a slide that heavy.
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Old August 2, 2012, 06:03 AM   #32
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We used a device in the 105mm M68 gun as a sub-caliber device to help with crew training. It fired .22LR ammo from a rifle device mounted in the breechblock. As I recall, it fired tracer ammo and was woefully inadequate even for training purposes. There is no way a .22LR can be made to simulate a 105mm round.

But, when I was in college our ROTC department had a range and they shot a lot of .22LR ammo, teaching basic marksmanship to the cadets.
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Old August 2, 2012, 09:46 AM   #33
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The only sub cal conversions for the M16FOW I saw in the marines was a 9mm conversion kit for sim rounds.

I know the training version of the AT4 uses a small caliber tracer, I think they told us it was a .22 but I don't remember. Heck I don't even remember what I ate for breakfast
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Old August 2, 2012, 10:01 AM   #34
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Green box & White Box ammo,,,

Quote:
If they came in Green boxes they were Remington, if they came in White boxes they were Wincherster.
The stuff I have is definitely Mil-Surp,,,
It comes in a white box,,,
It's Remington ammo.



Just saying,,,

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Old August 2, 2012, 12:42 PM   #35
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What is the year of that, I've never seen Remington in white box, though I got out (retired) in 1992.

Learn something every day.
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Old August 2, 2012, 12:59 PM   #36
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Hello kraigwy,,,

This is from the CMP website:

DESCRIPTION: Remington .22 Long Rifle Ammunition.
US Military contract Remington .22LR ammunition dated 1995 production.

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Old August 2, 2012, 08:21 PM   #37
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Quote:
When I was in the new York National Guard we had 22LR conversion units for the M-16s. Used them only 1x IIRC to allow the troops to qualify when for whatever reason we couldn't get to the range.
How novel! A conversion kit to convert a .22 to a .22.

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Old August 2, 2012, 08:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Unless of course you got some special civilian manufactored ammo.
I thought it was ALL civilian manufactured?

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Old August 2, 2012, 09:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
I thought it was ALL civilian manufactured?
You're right, I met to say purchased locally as opposed to getting it through the Military ASP's.
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Old August 3, 2012, 12:36 AM   #40
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I've been told the US Air Force used to train with the Ciener Partner .22 conv. in M16's. Some trained with the Colt 1911 Ace .22 (the gun also had a 45 top-end to go with it, i've seen a few)
And.....what was the full auto Ruger 10/22's used for?
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Old August 3, 2012, 05:53 PM   #41
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I bet there are a few military trainers still in service somewhere. My M44 Mossberg was marked to the Naval Weapons Support Center in Crane Indiana. One of about 3500 in inventory that were renumbered and parked in the 1970s. I think I hae a .22 headspace guage somewhere around here still in the military contractor packaging too.



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Old August 5, 2012, 08:52 AM   #42
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My Guard unit (CT) had some .22 conversion kits in the armory for the M-16s. We used them once. There is also a yearly rifle match at the Coast Guard Academy that CT NG guys go to. The match uses service rifles with the .22 conversions.

Way back when, I shot .22 bolt action rifles while on my high school rifle team, we used rifles belonging to the NG unit in the Ansonia armory. They also had a range in the basement.

Every armory I was assigned to had a range inside (Waterbury, Naugatuck, New Haven, and the above mentioned Ansonia armories- the Danbury one had one also though I wasn't assigned to that one). Most of them were decomissioned when I joined, but obvious there was a need for a range capable of handling .22 cal shooting at one time.

I know 1st Mar Div had a rimfire rifle team back in the 70s. They used Marine Corps rifles.
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Old September 14, 2015, 07:21 PM   #43
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I have 1 ".30 caliber" ammo can marked
500 cartridges
caliber .22 long rifle
tracer M861 cartons
lot no.

so there was tracer ammo used also, the can is undated but looks fairly recent
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Old September 14, 2015, 09:39 PM   #44
SC4006
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wow, this was one of my first posts ever! Thanks for the input though ken22250.

Since joining the the military I have not used or seen a single round of .22lr during training btw.
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Old September 15, 2015, 09:54 AM   #45
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I enlisted in 2005. Did two years active duty and then went the Guard/college. and am at ten years of service and some change.

With the exception of the ROTC rifle team, I have not used a single .22 LR firearm in any official capacity while in the Army. I've been in either Cav or Infantry units the whole time. We used Eley Match ammo in college.

I've seen a bunch of military trainers in .22 LR, mainly European arms. It doesn't make much sense to use a .22 LR conversion for a weapon that's already shooting 5.56mm, indoor range use aside.

In the Infantry Museum at Ft. Benning, there is a integrally suppressed Hi-Standard pistol in one of the exhibits concerning Vietnam, I've read that SOG and LRRP teams used them often.
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Old September 15, 2015, 11:10 AM   #46
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Buddy of mine in the Rangers during the 1980's said he was trained with Colt Woodsman pistols, for sentries, guard dogs, quiet work.
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Old September 15, 2015, 11:16 AM   #47
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Quote:
It doesn't make much sense to use a .22 LR conversion for a weapon that's already shooting 5.56mm
1/4 or less the price...
The military and federal LE agencies in general do not use rimfire. They prefer to practice with "duty" ammunition identical to what is used in the field. Not their money, so an easy decision. Of course, we occasionally get a post here about a military unit burning through excess ammunition as fast as possible at the end of the fiscal year so they get the same allotment the next year. No reason to worry about practice cost if you are doing full auto mag dumps until the barrel melts just to use up your allotment.
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Old September 15, 2015, 12:09 PM   #48
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I am former Navy and the weapons familiarization when I was in was a 1911 converted to .22LR. .22LR was also common for target shooting in the NROTC units I observed (as in unit purchased and funded, not individual weapons).

The Navy is often slow to adopt small arms trends though.
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Old September 15, 2015, 12:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
The Navy is often slow to adopt small arms trends though.
Like the Air Force, the Navy doesn't rely as much on the use of small arms like the Army and Marines do.

I went to high school in south Florida and, at the time, we had an NRA sanctioned rifle team that competed with other area highs schools. (Imagine that now! We actually practiced on school grounds.) Our practice ammo was military surplus Peters that was distributed through the DCM.
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Old September 15, 2015, 07:47 PM   #50
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Good three year jump, but still worth talking about.
I never saw .22 LR used while I spent four years in the military.

What I can contribute to this is that a good 40 grain round in something like
a well set up 10/22 is very deadly.

I know that we all want something that can be nasty like a 5.56 or above but
the 22LR is awesome under 100 yards.
I shot a lot of 5.56 while in the service and nobody offered me a rimfire to shoot.
The M79 that I loved was another great weapon but nobody had rimfire that
I knew of.
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