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Old July 24, 2012, 08:11 AM   #1
BoogieMan
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Anti-Gunners are out in force

This recent tragedy has brought out a plethora of anti gun activists. All of the major networks have had interviews with so called experts on the subject of gun control. At my local range they had 2 activists try to force there way onto the range. Just as a reminder to everyone that you need to keep your cool with these idiots. If your short tempered don't engage them if you do engage them be calm. The last thing to do is loose your cool and give them more to hate.
The states with the strictest gun control tend to have the highest crime rates. More gun deaths in Chicago in the last 2 weeks than in CO etc.. Explain to them what an assault rifle is and that it is not the same as the AR's that are available to the public. Explain to them that 986000 people are employed by the industry, $30.9 annually.
http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/impact.html

Thanks for reading.
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:29 AM   #2
Skadoosh
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Quote:
At my local range they had 2 activists try to force there way onto the range.
What were they trying to do...or accomplish?
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:32 AM   #3
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The firearms industry only makes $30.9 annually?!?!? Yikes!
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:34 AM   #4
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Ill take antis to the range anytime they want to learn how to shoot;-)
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:37 AM   #5
Bartholomew Roberts
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An interesting question is nobody has really tried to push gun control in the media for some time now. Just the occasional "O how sad that nobody is using this tragedy to push gun control" editorial.

This is the first real coordinated (and it is coordinated) effort I've seen to make gun control an issue by the media in some time. I wonder why they have been dormant for so long and why they are going to make their push now?
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:38 AM   #6
KMAX
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$30.9 annually.

Quote:
$30.9 annually.
Boogieman: Please explain.
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Old July 24, 2012, 08:48 AM   #7
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Bartholomew Roberts wrote: I wonder why they have been dormant for so long and why they are going to make their push now?
The lull is likely because the media knows that the issue is not a popular topic as far as getting new restrictions in place. My guess is they are trying to kick start this topic in the upcoming presidential election.
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I think that one of the notions common to the anti-gunner is the idea that being a victim is 'noble'; as if it is better to be noble in your suffering than disruptive in your own defense.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:00 AM   #8
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Sorry typo $30.9 billion in revenue from the industry annually.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:03 AM   #9
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The lull is likely because the media knows that the issue is not a popular topic as far as getting new restrictions in place. My guess is they are trying to kick start this topic in the upcoming presidential election.
They have a pretty good chance at winning the upcoming. This tradgety is the perfect opportunity to de-sensatize the masses to the idea of banning all firearms. If there guy gets in there is no chance for him to runa again and he can do whatever he wants. Moving the proverbial window left a bit.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:10 AM   #10
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What were they trying to do...or accomplish?
The range employees were not saying. Im not sure why? Apparently the front gate was left open and 2 guys came driving in and jumped out heading for the range. They were grabbed up by the RSO or someone at the range and thats all the info I heard.
As someone else said I would welcome the opportunity to take any Anti shooting for the day. Im sure there outlook would change once they had the opportunity. Great people, lots of fun.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:10 AM   #11
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Explain to them what an assault rifle is and that it is not the same as the AR's
Sir, i have tried my damnedest to do this with great futility, i tell them the true definition of an assault weapon is a select fire weapon, with a lever that will allow full automatic firing. i get replies like, "that don't mater, it's still an assault gun". when i get negative replies like that i know that to continue, i might just lose my cool and go ballistic, i usually say, "what an idiot" and walk away.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:21 AM   #12
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Facts don't matter. It's opinions that count.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
This is the first real coordinated (and it is coordinated) effort I've seen to make gun control an issue by the media in some time. I wonder why they have been dormant for so long and why they are going to make their push now?
IMO, it's a last stand.

They've been losing ground pretty much everywhere but in some extreme holdout states like CA. Look over the last ten to fifteen years and what has gone on. Shall-issue concealed carry is in more states than not. The 1994 AWB has sunset and it has zero chance of being revived in the near future. Many states have been eliminating their permit to purchase systems for handguns. Gun ownership rates are climbing and shooting as a hobby is becoming very mainstream, especially in the last few years. And last, but definitely not least, the SCOTUS has found that the 2nd Amendment is an individual right, greatly changing the landscape of the debate (previously, the environment was you could have any ban you could get passed... now, not so much).

The anti-gun groups have been reeling, losing members and money. Now they have a big tragedy they can point to, and they sense that this is one of their last chances to make any inroads. They will make some, but the complete lack of support I've seen for any new laws says that this is going to turn out like most last stands- there's a very short period where people pay attention and they have a minor effect right before they're steamrolled into oblivion. Their ability to restart discussion on potential gun control laws is only going to remind gun owners that there is still a vocal opposition to our rights... it will galvanize the pro-RKBA crowd and we'll continue on to do what we've been doing for the last several years- win elections and legislature votes, continuing the march of freedom.

They're noisy, but this is more likely to serve as a wakeup to the forces of freedom than as a resurgence for the anti crowd.
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Old July 24, 2012, 09:45 AM   #14
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The anti-gun groups have been reeling, losing members and money. Now they have a big tragedy they can point to, and they sense that this is one of their last chances to make any inroads. They will make some, but the complete lack of support I've seen for any new laws says that this is going to turn out like most last stands- there's a very short period where people pay attention and they have a minor effect right before they're steamrolled into oblivion. Their ability to restart discussion on potential gun control laws is only going to remind gun owners that there is still a vocal opposition to our rights... it will galvanize the pro-RKBA crowd and we'll continue on to do what we've been doing for the last several years- win elections and legislature votes, continuing the march of freedom.
The outrage has already died down. Obama has dodged the issue. The hardcore gun control crowd is still running around trying to get people's attention but as the facts have come out the general sentiment seems to be focused on the killer and not his tools.

I agree that this may have been seen as another opportunity, but it seems to be another unsuccessful attack on gun rights. I think that the gun control crowd may have soured people on their agenda by so blatantly attempting to exploit this tragedy.
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Old July 24, 2012, 10:00 AM   #15
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Even Bill O'Reilly got it wrong. Following is the copy of my E-Mail to him.



Mr O'Reilly
Your reports are for the most part accurate and balanced. Unfortunately, your piece on regulating machine guns, rocket propelled grenades and other destrutctive devices is TOTALLY incorrect.

A simple goggle search by your staff would have revealed the following:
Machine Guns are highly regulated.

1. To legally own a machine gun one must comply with the National Firearms Act which was enacted in 1934 and is found at 26 U.S.C. ch. 53, The act basically requires the payment of a tax and registration with the Feds. I believe the controling agency is the BATF.

2. Except for a limited number of persons, it is illegal for a private citzen to own, possess or sell a destructive device ( 26 U.S.C. § 5845(f). The type of devices which you called for regulation are allready intensly regulated by the BATF.

To my knowledge, only one murder has been committed by a legally held machine gun. That was committed by a Police Officer who murdered his wife with his DEPARTMENT ISSUED WEAPON.

This letter was in response to his talking points memo of July 24, 2012. It may be found at Bill O'Reilly http://www.billoreilly.com.

Read the article and send corrections to him.
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Old July 26, 2012, 08:18 AM   #16
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Anti-gunners have an arsenal of events, talking points, legislation, speeches, press releases, etc. all prepared in advance of any shooting that gets national attention. Anyone who thinks for a moment that the antis somehow react to what actually happened are way behind the eight-ball. They care about one thing only - pushing their agenda forward and getting back at you and me for a key piece of legislation that was permitted to expire. That made them angrier than a nest of hornets being poked with a cane poll.
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Old July 26, 2012, 09:38 AM   #17
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What you have to do is to convince people that a small number of deaths from the illegal use of firearms is acceptable and that the only solution is more firearms on the street.
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Old July 27, 2012, 01:19 AM   #18
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Itc444 good for you for sending O'Reilly the facts.

He might not even see your email or believe it if he does see it but it makes me feel better knowing that someone at least tried to present the truth and correct his mistakes.
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Old July 27, 2012, 07:27 AM   #19
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What you have to do is to convince people that a small number of deaths from the illegal use of firearms is acceptable
I don't know that it's ever acceptable, but we must understand that living in a free society carries some risks, including the occasional act of violent crime. Restricting freedoms doesn't do much to reduce that risk.
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Old July 28, 2012, 05:50 PM   #20
Arizona Smithshooter
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Something for all to think about.........

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Old July 29, 2012, 05:55 AM   #21
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Do you think the United States or any of the states thereof or lesser governmental entities are tyrannical? We went through this once before and I don't see any evidence that the succeeding government was any less tyrannical that the other one. That why, when you speak of such things, that you first have to convince people of the truth of your claims.

Another minor problem is violence begets violence. There will always be those who don't agree with you. They may take it upon themselves to raise serious objections to your new kindler, gentler government. Don't fool yourself by thinking about sheep. There might be a few rams among them, not to mention goats. So what would you do about them? Kill them all or run them out of the country? So far that's been the usual reactions.

Just trying to get all the facts out in the open and to see what people are really thinking.
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Old July 29, 2012, 09:02 AM   #22
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Here are a few quotes, spoken by a few guys England labeled as terrorists, and one from another famous guy that seems appropriate:

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, February 17, 1775

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom,
can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever."
John Adams

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have" Thomas Jefferson

When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty.
Thomas Jefferson

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” Thomas Jefferson

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of
arms.” Thomas Jefferson

“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.” Thomas Jefferson

“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” Thomas Jefferson

“Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not”. Thomas Jefferson

and finally

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
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Old July 29, 2012, 09:42 AM   #23
Chirpy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTrain View Post
Do you think the United States or any of the states thereof or lesser governmental entities are tyrannical? We went through this once before and I don't see any evidence that the succeeding government was any less tyrannical that the other one.
Excellent point, and I agree, but probably not the way you meant.

The 10th Amendment is all but shredded, not even considered by the DoJ any longer.

The 4th is all but gone, with no-knock warrants issued to militarized SWAT teams who can't be bothered to get addresses right. The current administration has enhanced the Tragedy of the Patriot Act with authorizing over 100 agencies to fly drones domestically, with nary a protest form the media or the ACLU.

The 1st has had the religion clause twisted beyond all meaning, and Chuckie Schumer is calling for "reasonable controls" on what's left.

We're (as if we are the Government) taking in almost double the tax revenue of the Clinton era, and still spending outstrips revenue by the greatest margin ever.

While certainly not a complete tyranny, the trend is surely going that way.
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Old July 29, 2012, 11:40 AM   #24
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From what I've seen, they're only slightly more shrill than they were after the Virginia Tech shooting. Even the slightly increased vocality I think is stems mainly from desperation because they're losing the fight. While the Bradys and their ilk were not in the greatest of positions when Virgina Tech happened, their position has grown even weaker since. Since VT, they've suffered two losses in the Supreme Court, one of the last two holdouts for CC has relented (Wisconsin), Constitutional Carry has spread, Castle Doctrine laws have spread, and President Obama has been less willing to push for gun control than they'd hoped he would've been. Gun control advocacy groups are becoming increasingly irrelevant and they know it, so they're resorting to the only things they know how to do: lie, embelish, and sensationalize.
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Old July 29, 2012, 03:52 PM   #25
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Well, DHS has released a video of how to react in the event of an active shooting.

For the first time in the history of our recent government the sheep are being told to fight back rather than sit pallidly idle waiting for the great rescuers to come save you.

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/473/...vive-a-shooter

Now for the government this present a sticky situation. Here they are forced to admit that you just might have to defend yourself. But obviously in the video your supposed to do it with a fire extinguisher against a shotgun.

Who-hoo. That's the odds I want on my side. BG gets Mossberg, I get dry chemical fire extinguisher. I feel safer already.

But I did note that the end scene in the video shows that instead of the police SWAT coming to clear the building it's the USMC's new domestic law enforcement units.

Now, how do we take this change in strategy by the government, telling the population to be prepared to fight back instead of merely cower like sheep, and tell them how to fight back effectively, like by carrying.
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