OAL .270 help

willyhunter1 · July 22, 2012, 11:26 AM

I am new to reloading ,but have loaded several rounds in 3 different calibers with no problems untill i got to the 270. I am using the lyman 49th edition and the lee loading manuals.
The book tells me a 150 gr. jacketed sp and gives me the hornady part number sp2740 with the min. oal of 3.285 inches, using IMR 4064. The problem is when i set the depth to this dimension i am nowhere near the canalure,and the cartridge will not chamber, so i smked the bullet and found that the seating depth on this riffle (a model 70 win) is 3.20 which gets me into the bullet canalure but puts me under my min.OAL any suggestions?

I am loading by the book

mrawesome22 · July 22, 2012, 11:31 AM

Forget the book oal. If you are applying a crimp, load to the cannulure.

No crimp, seat the bullet ogive .030" from the rifling, find a good powder charge, then tweak the oal from there.

Sometimes oal will be determined by magazine length.

Sent from HenseMod6.

willyhunter1 · July 22, 2012, 12:21 PM

Wont that run my pressure way up from seating to deep

mrawesome22 · July 22, 2012, 12:53 PM

No. You should be starting at the start load and working your way up toward most accurate, or excessive pressure signs. Whichever comes first.

I would not get my hopes up with IMR4064. It's too fast to be ideal for the 270Win.

Sent from HenseMod6.

willyhunter1 · July 22, 2012, 01:32 PM

Thanks im just concerned over the length being to short and i do start on the bottom end andwork up i just havent seen any of the loads they have listed beingthis far off espesially using the exact part numbers. The h4831 is probably the better choice but i had load data for the 4064 and was trying to use it up

mrawesome22 · July 22, 2012, 01:45 PM

Did they seat to the cannulure?

If so, what is your case length compared to theirs?

Sent from HenseMod6.

**Unclenick** · July 22, 2012, 01:52 PM

Willyhunter1,

Welcome to the forum.

It sounds like your minimum is a bad number. The SAAMI spec is COL from 3.065" to 3.340". Even then, SAAMI's numbers are concerned with magazine feed and compatibility as well as chambering, but with a standard nose profile. If you get a more blunt nose profile it may still jam the lands even within SAAMI maximum. There is nothing to prevent you from sizing down a .32 wadcutter and seating it flush with the case mouth, provided you develop your load with it seated that way. You just can't count on it to nose up a feed ramp properly and may have to chamber it singly.

Figure your bullet maker knew what he was doing with his own bullet's shape when he located the cannelure. Also be aware that typos creep into manuals sometimes and that when you aren't using the exact same gun the manual author used, that can mess it up too because your throat may be different.

603Country · July 22, 2012, 02:11 PM

Willyhunter, you don't need a crimp on your 270 rounds, unless you just want to do it. I haven't crimped a rifle load in 35 years.

As for the powder, I use H4831sc and there are quite a few powders that will work better for you than IMR 4064 for velocity. That said, I did use 4064 in my Browning BAR 270 some years ago and it shot pretty darn good (3/4 inch at 100 yards) with the Nosler 130 gr Ballistic Tips. I shot many many deer with that load.

willyhunter1 · July 22, 2012, 02:41 PM

I have tried with and without crimp i use a factory crimp just for the fact i use a pump action ona few of my other guns. The seating difference was.085 difference and didnt get me to the canalure. After i smoked it to find the lands i seated it 025 more andnow im in the canalure. As for the powder i dont target shoot much and all my rounds are for hunting white tails and hogs and my 30-06 shoots well with the imr4064. I appreciate all the posts

farmerboy · July 22, 2012, 11:25 PM

Atleast try your calipers against a other set to check for accuracy and also agree that any literature can have typos so check 2-3 sources and also believe if you want a crimp set at cannalure set it but really you don't need a crimp if you don't want one.

willyhunter1 · July 23, 2012, 09:59 AM

Yes sir ckecked my calipers and lymans and lee books both say the same as far as minimum length but that length wont chamber. It actually seated the bulletto the base of the canalure. I set it up like i should from that point i was just concerned at the depth of the bullet. I am seated in the canalure .025 off the lands total oal
3.215 vs the books 3.285

steve4102 · July 23, 2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Wont that run my pressure way up from seating to deep

In straight walled pistol cartridges yes, in bottle necked rifle rounds like the 270, no. In fact seating deeper usually reduces pressure as the bullet get farther away from the rifling.

From Western Powders.

SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a
guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 1) magazine length (space), 2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel, 3)
ogive or profile of the projectile and 4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

**Unclenick** · July 23, 2012, 10:34 AM

You get chambers with quite a range of throat profiles, some with a long freebore before the bullet meets the lands and some not. You don't have the same gun Lyman used so their number need not necessarily match yours.

That said, I suspect the Lyman number is a misprint. I say that because I looked up the same bullet in Hornady's own manual it gives a COL of 3.210" in a case trimmed to 2.530"; 0.075" shorter than Lyman gives. Presumably Hornady knows where their own cannelure is, and I doubt Lyman ignored the cannelure (though they could have; you'd have to ask them).

Note that case length does affect COL when you crimp into a cannelure and that the cannelure covers a vertical span that gives you a short adjustment range. I usually seat so the case mouth is about 2/3 up a cannelure before crimping with a standard seating die's crimp shoulder. I have it 100% up for the Lee Factory Crimp. Some folks go half way up. There's some wiggle room here.

If you are 0.025" off the lands, you shouldn't get closer without backing loads off and working up to check for pressure signs, because pressure will be rising as you get closer and there is less gas bypass during bullet jump to the lands. It sounds like you have a chamber with a short freebore, more like a match chamber, but those can be good for accuracy, so I would just accommodate it and see how well the gun will shoot.

wncchester · July 23, 2012, 12:48 PM

"... After i smoked it to find the lands i seated it 025 more andnow im in the canalure."

You're doing fine, shoot 'em. Within reason, seating deeper in rifles DECREASES peak pressure.

willyhunter1 · July 23, 2012, 03:43 PM

Thank you i was going to get ahornady book today. Im glad i found this site everyone has been helpful unlike other sites ive been to. I appreciate all the help and as i get into this new hobby of mine a little more, i know where i will seek advice.

July 22, 2012, 11:26 AM	#1
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	OAL .270 help I am new to reloading ,but have loaded several rounds in 3 different calibers with no problems untill i got to the 270. I am using the lyman 49th edition and the lee loading manuals. The book tells me a 150 gr. jacketed sp and gives me the hornady part number sp2740 with the min. oal of 3.285 inches, using IMR 4064. The problem is when i set the depth to this dimension i am nowhere near the canalure,and the cartridge will not chamber, so i smked the bullet and found that the seating depth on this riffle (a model 70 win) is 3.20 which gets me into the bullet canalure but puts me under my min.OAL any suggestions? I am loading by the book

July 22, 2012, 01:52 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,164	Willyhunter1, Welcome to the forum. It sounds like your minimum is a bad number. The SAAMI spec is COL from 3.065" to 3.340". Even then, SAAMI's numbers are concerned with magazine feed and compatibility as well as chambering, but with a standard nose profile. If you get a more blunt nose profile it may still jam the lands even within SAAMI maximum. There is nothing to prevent you from sizing down a .32 wadcutter and seating it flush with the case mouth, provided you develop your load with it seated that way. You just can't count on it to nose up a feed ramp properly and may have to chamber it singly. Figure your bullet maker knew what he was doing with his own bullet's shape when he located the cannelure. Also be aware that typos creep into manuals sometimes and that when you aren't using the exact same gun the manual author used, that can mess it up too because your throat may be different. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

July 23, 2012, 10:34 AM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 9,164	You get chambers with quite a range of throat profiles, some with a long freebore before the bullet meets the lands and some not. You don't have the same gun Lyman used so their number need not necessarily match yours. That said, I suspect the Lyman number is a misprint. I say that because I looked up the same bullet in Hornady's own manual it gives a COL of 3.210" in a case trimmed to 2.530"; 0.075" shorter than Lyman gives. Presumably Hornady knows where their own cannelure is, and I doubt Lyman ignored the cannelure (though they could have; you'd have to ask them). Note that case length does affect COL when you crimp into a cannelure and that the cannelure covers a vertical span that gives you a short adjustment range. I usually seat so the case mouth is about 2/3 up a cannelure before crimping with a standard seating die's crimp shoulder. I have it 100% up for the Lee Factory Crimp. Some folks go half way up. There's some wiggle room here. If you are 0.025" off the lands, you shouldn't get closer without backing loads off and working up to check for pressure signs, because pressure will be rising as you get closer and there is less gas bypass during bullet jump to the lands. It sounds like you have a chamber with a short freebore, more like a match chamber, but those can be good for accuracy, so I would just accommodate it and see how well the gun will shoot. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Patron Member

July 22, 2012, 11:31 AM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Forget the book oal. If you are applying a crimp, load to the cannulure. No crimp, seat the bullet ogive .030" from the rifling, find a good powder charge, then tweak the oal from there. Sometimes oal will be determined by magazine length. Sent from HenseMod6.

July 22, 2012, 12:21 PM	#3
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	Wont that run my pressure way up from seating to deep

July 22, 2012, 12:53 PM	#4
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	No. You should be starting at the start load and working your way up toward most accurate, or excessive pressure signs. Whichever comes first. I would not get my hopes up with IMR4064. It's too fast to be ideal for the 270Win. Sent from HenseMod6.

July 22, 2012, 01:32 PM	#5
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	Thanks im just concerned over the length being to short and i do start on the bottom end andwork up i just havent seen any of the loads they have listed beingthis far off espesially using the exact part numbers. The h4831 is probably the better choice but i had load data for the 4064 and was trying to use it up

July 22, 2012, 01:45 PM	#6
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Did they seat to the cannulure? If so, what is your case length compared to theirs? Sent from HenseMod6.

July 22, 2012, 02:11 PM	#8
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 1,716	Willyhunter, you don't need a crimp on your 270 rounds, unless you just want to do it. I haven't crimped a rifle load in 35 years. As for the powder, I use H4831sc and there are quite a few powders that will work better for you than IMR 4064 for velocity. That said, I did use 4064 in my Browning BAR 270 some years ago and it shot pretty darn good (3/4 inch at 100 yards) with the Nosler 130 gr Ballistic Tips. I shot many many deer with that load.

July 22, 2012, 02:41 PM	#9
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	I have tried with and without crimp i use a factory crimp just for the fact i use a pump action ona few of my other guns. The seating difference was.085 difference and didnt get me to the canalure. After i smoked it to find the lands i seated it 025 more andnow im in the canalure. As for the powder i dont target shoot much and all my rounds are for hunting white tails and hogs and my 30-06 shoots well with the imr4064. I appreciate all the posts

July 22, 2012, 11:25 PM	#10
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Atleast try your calipers against a other set to check for accuracy and also agree that any literature can have typos so check 2-3 sources and also believe if you want a crimp set at cannalure set it but really you don't need a crimp if you don't want one.

July 23, 2012, 09:59 AM	#11
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	Yes sir ckecked my calipers and lymans and lee books both say the same as far as minimum length but that length wont chamber. It actually seated the bulletto the base of the canalure. I set it up like i should from that point i was just concerned at the depth of the bullet. I am seated in the canalure .025 off the lands total oal 3.215 vs the books 3.285

July 23, 2012, 12:48 PM	#14
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,700	"... After i smoked it to find the lands i seated it 025 more andnow im in the canalure." You're doing fine, shoot 'em. Within reason, seating deeper in rifles DECREASES peak pressure.

July 23, 2012, 03:43 PM	#15
willyhunter1 Junior Member Join Date: July 22, 2012 Location: georgia Posts: 6	Thank you i was going to get ahornady book today. Im glad i found this site everyone has been helpful unlike other sites ive been to. I appreciate all the help and as i get into this new hobby of mine a little more, i know where i will seek advice.