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Old July 15, 2012, 08:33 PM   #1
Saint Dennis
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Oh fudge!

There I was happily priming 9mm brass for the wife when I noticed rounds 300 through 400 that I primed and tossed into a common container with rounds 0-300 had been primed with CCI magnum small pistol primers. The first 300 were CCI standard small pistol. I had intended to load 4.4 grains HP38 under Missouri bullets 125 gr. lead small ball bullets. So.. are the magnum primers going to make things unsafe? Either I deprime 400 rounds of live primed brass and reflare it, since the only depriming tool I have is my sizing die, and try again or just load them up. What say you wise, grizzled, powder stuffers?
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Old July 15, 2012, 08:49 PM   #2
ScottRiqui
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I'd deprime them, since you seem to be pretty close to a maximum load with 4.4 gr of HP-38 (or possibly even over max). The difference between a magnum primer and a regular primer might be enough to make things go sideways.

Looking at a couple different sources, here's what I found:

Hodgdon web site:
125 gr lead bullet (LCN): 3.9 - 4.4 gr of HP-38

Lee Second Edition:
124 grain lead bullet: 3.3 - 4.0 gr of W231 (widely considered to be the same as HP-38)

Speer #13:
125 gr LRN: 3.9 - 4.2 gr of HP-38
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Old July 15, 2012, 09:12 PM   #3
Lost Sheep
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Can you tell by looking at them which is which? (I think not, but I don't have any CCIs on hand to see if they are discernable.)

If you cannot, remember they are for your beloved wife. Take no chances for less than $15 worth of primers and an evening's work.

Good luck.

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edit: If it were me, I would try to find a load that would be compatible with both primers and turn the whole fiasco into an experiment to prove that magnum primers vs standard primers would make a difference. Firing off 400 rounds to see if you wound up with two different points of impact and velocity clusters or not might be fun. Of course, that would involve more work and a lot of lead. So before committing 400 slugs to the project I would make sure a (newly made) load would cycle the slide with certainty with standard primers and magnum primers would not be too hot.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; July 15, 2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old July 15, 2012, 10:28 PM   #4
BDS-THR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Dennis
I had intended to load 4.4 grains HP38 under Missouri bullets 125 gr. lead small ball bullets.
I use 3.8-4.0 gr of W231/HP-38 (same exact powder per Hodgdon) with Missouri 125 gr LRN (Small ball) based on 1999 Winchester load data for 124 gr LRN. Due to the "rounded" ogive of the bullet nose, I also use shorter 1.080"-1.100" OAL as using more typical 1.125"-1.135" OAL will hit the rifling in my barrels, so conduct your own barrel drop test to determine the OAL.



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Old July 15, 2012, 11:44 PM   #5
warningshot
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Just shoot-em.

At the powder level you described, it would be more dangerous depriming a live primer than would be than just shooting this batch up at the range.
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Old July 15, 2012, 11:50 PM   #6
ScottRiqui
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He hasn't loaded them yet - right now, he's just sitting on 400 primed empty cases.

I agree with Lost Sheep that he could try to find a lower charge that would be safe with either the regular or magnum primers, but I'd be hesitant to load them up as he originally planned, with 4.4 gr of HP-38. That's potentially 5-10% over max already, and then you're adding in the fact that randomly mixed in with the 300 regular primers are 100 magnum primers.
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Old July 15, 2012, 11:59 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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We're it me, I'd load a few cases with standard primers and work up a load. If I got to max and found it satisfactory, I'd back off 10% and load all those cases at that level.
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Old July 16, 2012, 06:21 AM   #8
Sport45
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Sometimes the priming compound is a different color and you can tell them apart by looking through the flash hole.

At least might would allow you to sort them.
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Old July 16, 2012, 07:28 AM   #9
g.willikers
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Pretty sure that CCI primers are a different color, looking at the primer material under the anvil.
If you can tell which is which, just put the cases with the magnum primers aside and load them another time.
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Old July 16, 2012, 07:51 AM   #10
Jim Watson
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I think you need some sort of hair shirt discipline to encourage you to be more attentive while loading.

But the difference between standard and magnum primer is not going to blow up your gun unless you are very overloaded to start with.

That said, 4.4 grains HP38 is already at or over the maximum book load for 125 grain lead 9mms. I'd go back to about 4 grains and shoot.
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Old July 16, 2012, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Just shoot-em.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the powder level you described, it would be more dangerous depriming a live primer than would be than just shooting this batch up at the range.
Good Grief, Why! Nothing dangerous about depriming live primers.

Primers ignite from shock as in impact not from pressure pressing them out.

But in all likelyhood, I'd just back off my powder charge 10%, load em up, and shoot them.

Frankly I load all my handgun cases that take small primers with small rifle primers, and I use a medimum powder charge, been doing it for years, at least ever since I purchased 10's of thousands of small rifle primers at a closeout for less than $50 bucks for 5,000.
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Old July 16, 2012, 04:46 PM   #12
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I regularly shoot 125gr LRN over 4.0-4.1gr HP38 to great effect. I get 1040fps at 1.125" OAL. I agree with those that suggestion you should back your load down a bit and have at it.
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Old July 16, 2012, 04:50 PM   #13
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Since it would be difficult to tell which is which primer once it's in the case, I'd load 'em up with minimum loads and shoot 'em.
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Old July 16, 2012, 05:02 PM   #14
Saint Dennis
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What in the world is a hair shirt discipline? I admit to dropping the ball, but I did catch it before I shot them. The attentive problem happened at Cabella's when I bought them. The packaging looks pretty similar. I think after reading through your much appreciated advice, I will back off my load to 3.8 grains and test fire it with a known magnum primer. See how it goes.
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Old July 16, 2012, 09:52 PM   #15
oldreloader
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I agree with BDS.. My normal load for all MBC 125 gr bullets is 3.8 to 4.1. I'd drop the charge down to that range and use the for fun.
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Old July 17, 2012, 01:56 AM   #16
FrankenMauser
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It may be possible to sort the cases by looking through the flash holes. I've done it in the past (another reloader accidentally mixed some Win primers with old CCIs that had a brass cup, while messing with my bench - I didn't notice until most of the cases were primed).

CCI primers use a color code to identify the different types.
The top of the "pellet" of priming compound is covered by a small piece of colored paper foil. Each type of primer has a different color.

The color code has changed over time, so there's no way of knowing exactly what yours may be, other than to check any remaining primers from the same lots. But...

These colors have been in use for at least 15 years, and are probably what you have, as well:
(500 on the left, 550 (mag) on the right)


CCI SP (500) is yellow
CCI SPM (500) is reddish/orange

I know it sounds far-fetched, but you really can see the color through the flash hole more often that expected.

Use the information however you wish....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CCI primers_400.jpg (62.6 KB, 85 views)
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Old July 17, 2012, 03:12 AM   #17
warningshot
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I say again, 'just shoot them.

Depriming live primers can't go off...I like it. I like it. Ha Ha. Don't try this at home kids, we are professionals.
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Old July 17, 2012, 04:44 AM   #18
Sport45
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Quote:
Depriming live primers can't go off...I like it. I like it. Ha Ha. Don't try this at home kids, we are professionals.
You're right, of course. When depriming a live primer it's just as likely to go off as when priming cases with live primers. It can happen.

I've had one go off when priming. None, so far, when depriming. Not saying it can't happen, it just hasn't happened to me and I haven't heard about it happening to anyone else.

Just shooting them with less than max loads is certainly an option.
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Old July 17, 2012, 02:17 PM   #19
warningshot
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Sport 45, you are one up on me. Good luck.
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:51 PM   #20
Sport45
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Sport 45, you are one up on me. Good luck.
At least now I know not to force one past a crimp that I didn't ream enough...
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