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Old July 16, 2012, 06:01 PM   #26
Botswana
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Police officers serving warrants have a responsibility to know where the [bleep] they're going. The deputies (or their superiors, if they were dispatched to an incorrect address) are 100 percent at fault.
Not to take away from the tragedy or the fact that clearly horrible mistakes were made.

The police do not need a warrant to knock on your door.
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Old July 16, 2012, 06:10 PM   #27
MP9
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We dont know really if the guy had the gun pointed at the officers, or someone else saw that? . Maybe the guy had the gun draw but hide in the back. And when he opened the door or started to open the door the officers pushed it very hard and then they saw the gun and shot him...and then they said the guy pointed the gun at them. Who know?

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Old July 16, 2012, 06:30 PM   #28
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One time I did have an officer pounding on my door at 0 dark thirty, something like 2 or 3 AM...he was there because my phone was turned off, and my mother had passed away. My brother had called the local PD to check on me and let me know what was going on. I was armed, but the officer never saw it, plus he both identified himself and stepped back into the light from the porch light so I could see his uniform. I keep forgetting this one time it did happen to me - we tend to block bad memories, maybe?
In that specific case, the officer was polite, respectful and expressed his condolences as well.
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Old July 16, 2012, 06:48 PM   #29
amd6547
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Perhaps, if someone is pounding on your door a zero dark thirty, the thing to do is call the police and tell them...arm yourself and hunker down in your safe position and wait for a marked unit to sort it out.
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Old July 16, 2012, 11:45 PM   #30
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So this situation really has nothing to do with your personal dislike for city cops, SWAT, or drug teams.
I do not dislike cops, SWAT or drug teams and if I did I would not have worked with my local department for the past 22 years, but I do dislike the assumption that you have made.
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Old July 17, 2012, 05:45 AM   #31
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Police officers serving warrants have a responsibility to know where the [bleep] they're going. The deputies (or their superiors, if they were dispatched to an incorrect address) are 100 percent at fault
I must agree with that. The stakes are really too high to be making mistakes like this.

I would much rather see LE letting a few bad guys get away than to be shooting innocents. Of course, we may never know what the dead guy did with his weapon that provoked the shooting.

The fact that the cops didn't identify themselves is very disturbing to me...
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Old July 17, 2012, 06:54 AM   #32
Don P
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Being this happened in my neck of the woods its all over the news. Other than stating the fact that LE had the wrong house not much else being said at this time. Family members are saying the victim should still be alive because LE screwed up. Other that what I have stated that has come out of local coverage all is quiet from LE. Opinion: LE should be held fully accountable. Just my opinion
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Old July 17, 2012, 07:35 AM   #33
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LE is never held fully accountable. One poster above is someone who sat on review boards. To paraphrase his note to us: "LEO's brought before the board often took the easy way out and resigned". Uhh... there are not too many jobs where you can resign your way out of a murder charge. There are two sets of laws in the USA: One for them, and one for us. Ignore that fact at your peril.

Nothing will happen here other than "retraining". Mark my words.


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Old July 17, 2012, 07:44 AM   #34
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So now the LEO bashing begins....
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:35 AM   #35
Double Naught Spy
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I do not dislike cops, SWAT or drug teams and if I did I would not have worked with my local department for the past 22 years, but I do dislike the assumption that you have made.
I must have missed your love of the police in all the negative things you were saying about cops, municipal SWAT and drug teams, etc. After all, why would you go out of your way to get on a soapbox and monologue about all these things with which you have issues when they have absolutely nothing to do with the story being discussed?

Quote:
Police officers serving warrants have a responsibility to know where the [bleep] they're going. The deputies (or their superiors, if they were dispatched to an incorrect address) are 100 percent at fault.
As noted, these deputies were not serving a warrant. They were involved in trying to track down suspects who tried to kill another person earlier in the evening. They located one suspect's motorcycle and it was parked in front of an apartment and so they knocked on the door of the apartment. They weren't dispatched to the wrong address. If they were dispatched, they were dispatched to the address where the motorcycle was parked.

Were they at the correct apartment where the suspect was? Nope. They didn't know where the suspect was, but they knocked on the residence closest to the motorcycle. Maybe the suspect was there or maybe the occupants could tell the cops where the suspect lived if the occupants were familiar with the motorcycle's owner. I see no harm in that action.

If they are lookiing for the suspect and knock on a resident's door, should they shout out that they are the cops? Well if the suspect is nearby, then they have likely given him ample warning and time to get away.

-----

I think some of y'all are buying into the media hype on the incident. Just like when y'all don't like it when the media throws out hot button words such as "assault weapons" and the like, they are doing the same thing here with "wrong house" and "wrong person."

The deputies did not shoot the wrong person. They did not shoot the suspect for whom they were looking, but if their account is correct, they definitely shot the person they believed they needed to shoot at the time and that was the person pointing a gun at them.

Were they at the wrong house? They had no way to know until they knocked on the door. It was the location where the motorcycle was parked. So why not knock on the closest door?

It wasn't a bunch of paramilitary city cops and they were not serving a warrant. They were simply deputies following up on leads and when knocking on doors, law enforcement officers certainly don't always yell out who they are before the door is opened.

Did they shoot too hastily? That is certainly possible. Deputy spokesman Herrell states we should put ourselves in the deputies shoes. They were expecting to find the suspect and so when faced with the gun, took action.
http://www.wesh.com/news/central-flo...g/-/index.html

While pointing a gun at law enforcement is never a good idea, it does happy when they knock on doors inthe middle of the night which is usually followed by a lot of shouting as to who they are, etc. They don't have their guns drawn and they aren't ready to shoot the occupant immediately, but in this case, it sounds like did have their guns out and were ready to fight and so were set off by seeing Scott with is gun that was reportedly pointed at them. In other words, they anticipated encountering a violent criminal and when that was apparently confirmed in their own minds by the gun, they took action. Had the cops been going door-to-door in the middle of the night trying to track down a lost child and knocked on Scott's door, for example, they certainly would not have been ready to shoot when the door opened.

If Scott pointed a gun at the cops, they are probably more than justified in believing that Scott had opportunity, ability, and intent to do them harm. They would in other situations as well. Even so, I do think this shooting could have been avoided. That does not mean that the deputies were at fault criminally, but based on Herrell's statements, it does sound like the family would have a good argument for a wrongful death suit.
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:45 AM   #36
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+1 DNS, great points, very well said
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Old July 17, 2012, 10:05 AM   #37
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While I agree with many of your points, DNS, I'd point out that choosing not to identify themselves AT 1:30AM could have been predicted to have several poor outcome possibilities.

Very few people assume the best when an unexpected knock occurs at that time of night.

It's safe to say that a significant percentage of the populace will answer a door armed, at 0130, if they answer it at all.
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Old July 17, 2012, 10:41 AM   #38
Glenn E. Meyer
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1. Don't open the door - demand ID.
2. It is not sensible to open the door to unknowns and point a gun at them.

We need more details. For all you know, the person pounding on the door is to tell you that your house is on fire. That's happened.

It's fine to emote but without more details, it's just emotions.
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:18 AM   #39
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Double Naught Spy, you did not read my comment but IMO, you are just digging for a fight. Reread my comment, the first thing I stated was "State Attorney" then "Department Punishment" and then "Resigned". Why by being a member of review board make me a cop hater, I didn't violate the rules, they did and should be held accountable for their actions. By the way do you know why most officers resign in lieu of termination? They, in most cases, don't loose their certification and are able to find another position as a police officer elsewhere.
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:23 AM   #40
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This thread is a whole lot of speculation, accusations, and silliness. It may be a good idea to just lock it while it's still somewhat civil. The reality is NONE of us knows exactly what went on so calling for a public lynching of the police officers is irresponsible to say the least. And yes, that's what many of you seem to be calling for.

I can pretty much guarantee this will end up in a trial of some sort, so let the courts figure it out.
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:53 AM   #41
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There were no winners in that situation. I hope the officers involved will be treated the same as any ordinary citizen (grand jury, trial, sentence) by the court system. It sounds as if they made a very costly mistake; more details amy emerge later.


I think it is not a good idea to open the door IF you think you need your gun. In that situation, call 911 and report unidentified armed persons on your porch and hide/barricade away from them to give everybody more time for important decisions (shoot or no shoot, announce, etc.).
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Old July 17, 2012, 11:53 AM   #42
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I asked that this thread remain civil. That has, sadly, not been heeded.
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