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Old July 9, 2012, 07:48 PM   #1
myshoulderissore
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Got a new stock, LOP question.

The stock I got is the Knoxx normal adjustable stock, not the recoil reducing one. First things first, I like it, my son likes it, and it is very comfortable.

The reason for the post is the fit... I like it on the longest or second to longest setting, and I measured the LOP, comes in at 14-15". That seems like a VERY long LOP to me, even though it does fit nicely. Is that normal? I never did like the factory stock...



Oh, ignore the bed, it's laundry day for bedding!
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Old July 9, 2012, 08:07 PM   #2
Creeper
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Low to mid 14s is common... however, many prefer a shorter LOP with heavy clothing, tactical web gear, vests... and those that prefer a more squared to the target stance rather than an angled one.

It's a bit of a subjective thing... there are no hard, fast rules.

I have two personal "rules":
1. Using a nearly square to target stance, which I prefer, can I bring the shotgun up from a low ready position quickly and on target without accommodation or adjustment?
2.Can I shoot several boxes of full power buckshot without discomfort, and at the end of the day, does rule #1 still work?

More often than not, I personally end up with a 12.5" to 13.5" LOP.

Cheers,
C
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Old July 9, 2012, 08:07 PM   #3
plouffedaddy
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The factory stock is 14''. I much prefer shorter LOPs although I'm 6'0''.
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Old July 9, 2012, 08:47 PM   #4
oneounceload
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Unless you are one who likes to "scrunch" up on a stock, at 6' tall, 15 is not necessarily too long. A lot of things determine LOP, grip style being one of the major reasons.

Pick a spot on the wall, close your eyes, raise your UNloaded gun to your shoulder and open your eyes - are they locked on that point on the wall and not seeing any rib? Then your fit is close. However, drop at heel, drop at comb, cast, pitch, thickness of the comb, etc. are also factors affecting fit besides LOP
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Old July 9, 2012, 09:29 PM   #5
Creeper
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Quote:
Unless you are one who likes to "scrunch" up on a stock, at 6' tall, 15 is not necessarily too long. A lot of things determine LOP, grip style being one of the major reasons.
Interesting observation oneounce...

I think, and correct me if I'm off on this... the stance used, relative to the target will have a substantial effect on preferred LOP as well.

When using a "combat" shotgun, being trained to be nearly square to the target, i.e. shoulders nearly perpendicular to the point of aim, weak foot slightly forward (is this the "scrunched" you refer to?), I use a relatively short LOP stock. An example would be a Benelli M2 with a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock (with PG)... LOP is 12.5".
Back when I first got into combat shotguns, I used a Savage 69 with a wood stock. I eventually ended up with a LOP of 13.3".
I believe as you stated, that an actual pistol grip, or lack there of, has a bearing on LOP as well.

I'm not much of a skeet shooter, but having done a bit of it several years ago, I recall being quite comfortable with an angled stance, i.e. shoulders roughly 45 degrees to the point of aim, weak foot well ahead of strong foot, using a gun with, what I believe had a 14.75" inch LOP. Perhaps the light skeet loads had a bearing on this as well.

I've never had a stock fit to me, nor have I held a custom fit stock with drop at heel, drop at comb, cast, pitch, thickness of the comb etc. etc... because I'm a lefty, and you just don't encounter that sort of thing often.

Cheers,
C
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Old July 9, 2012, 09:44 PM   #6
TheKlawMan
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I am 5'8", 195 pounds, have slightly short arms, a long neck, and a 14-1/8" LOP appears to be right for me. Clothing, armor, and weight can also affect LOP. If you gain some weight in the winter and wear heavier clothing you may need a shorter LOP than if you thin down in the Summer and shoot in a thin shirt. One solution is having two sets of butt pads; a thin one and a thick one; or an adjustable stock. On the other hand, if you are BigJimP or Slugo, you just buy a gun for each season.
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Old July 10, 2012, 10:32 AM   #7
BigJimP
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Now wait a minute....why did I get punked in this discussion ...???

( doesn't everyone need a spring gun, a summer gun, a rain gun, a I'm too lazy to carry a heavy gun - gun....???).....geez man, minding my own business, reading some threads...enjoying my first latte - and I get smacked ....

I'm going to load my truck - with my 12ga, my 28ga and my .410 so I can go to the club for the day...( its Tue ) ...its a Skeet day ....

Last edited by BigJimP; July 10, 2012 at 11:18 AM.
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Old July 10, 2012, 11:48 AM   #8
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What... no latte gun?
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Old July 10, 2012, 12:04 PM   #9
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We may be comparing apples to oranges on this one. If you're going to shoot square to the target, as Creeper mentioned, then the common rules about stock sizing go out the window. The tradition cross-body mount used by hunters and target shooters uses a longer stock that those used by squared-off run-n-gun shooters.

Since run-n-gun is an offensive action, I'm not sure how it relates to HD. You might get more realistic HD practice if you shot from a La-Z-Boy in the dark of the night (none of the ranges around here allow that).

BigJim, my friend, sorry that they're picking on you. Those of us who know you realize, in your neck of the woods, you only need one stock size: One that works with rain gear.

Last edited by zippy13; July 10, 2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Old July 10, 2012, 01:26 PM   #10
TheKlawMan
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Zippy made a good point about what is normal for a running (tactical) stock and target shooting stock is very different. I gave my LOP is an example for someone of my size and build, but should have said that is for targets.

Anyway, I reread your question which is if a 14" to 15" LOP is normal. Asuming you are of normal size and build (5'8" to just over 6'), I believe that is "normal" for most purposes. It is not "normal" for a combat gun as Zippy and Creeper point out.

I had thought of getting something like your Knox for my 870, which is the same model depicted in your picture, so that the women of the house can use it. If I did, I would get the recoil absorbing stock and keep it set on the shortest setting.
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Old July 10, 2012, 03:26 PM   #11
myshoulderissore
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Shot it last night, and comfy or not, it still punches me if I have my cheek on it... I need a Weatherby MkV style stock for it.

Anyway, it is very good for quick point and shoot style with the stock retracted, also makes for easier storage, and when extended, is quite comfortable punching clays, although I still have to do a cheek "hover" instead of weld. I've gotten pretty good at it!

Klaw, I would recommend the recoil reducing one for sure, my son only took 2 shots before crying uncle. For the first time, my shoulder is actually sore, but I put a couple boxes of 100 through it, but it doesn't make any attempt to soften the recoil. I went with it because I am not bothered by recoil (much) and my wife already won't shoot it, so I went with the cheaper version.
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Old July 10, 2012, 04:19 PM   #12
Creeper
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Quote:
Anyway, it is very good for quick point and shoot style with the stock retracted.
myshoulderissore - This statement is in conflict with your 1st post statement. I guess the question now is... what's what?

Quote:
I like it on the longest or second to longest setting.
Or...
Quote:
(Retracted) It is very good for quick point and shoot style.
Cheers,
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Old July 10, 2012, 04:53 PM   #13
TheKlawMan
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Try going to this http://www.aiptactical.com/Breaking_In_the_870.html and adjusting the stock as explained under recoil reducing stocks. This may not apply to yours if you don't have a recoil reducing stock. To be sure, I didn't know they made a Knox like your's looks without the recoil reducing feature but I don't keep up with tactical stuff. Now I know it makes them.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; July 10, 2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old July 10, 2012, 10:58 PM   #14
myshoulderissore
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Quote:
I guess the question now is... what's what?
What I mean is if I have it in the closet, and I have a sudden need to grab it and fire as is (stock fully retracted) I can do so from the chest, sighting inline with the barrel, but a couple inches above.

From the shoulder, proper shooting position, the factory stock never felt right. The comfort statement refers to that, the Knoxx feels much better while fully extended in a proper sport shooting stance.

In an HD situation, short LOP planted in the chest is handier, quicker to deploy, and within 7 yards, easily accurate enough. (for me, that is...)

Last edited by myshoulderissore; July 10, 2012 at 11:11 PM.
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Old July 10, 2012, 11:10 PM   #15
myshoulderissore
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Quote:
Try going to this http://www.aiptactical.com/Breaking_In_the_870.html and adjusting the stock as explained under recoil reducing stocks. This may not apply to yours if you don't have a recoil reducing stock. To be sure, I didn't know they made a Knox like your's looks without the recoil reducing feature but I don't keep up with tactical stuff. Now I know it makes them.
Indeed, thanks for the link! I've read much of those "points" when I got the shotgun and searched about it, but not in one place...

My recoil cheekpunching issue is more of an issue of the angle of the stock(s). With the factory stock, and the Knoxx, they both angle from the (elevated) action, to the buttpad. Rearward motion from recoil makes my face ride up a ramp, basically, not a steep one, but very quickly. Really, not a huge issue, the only time I need to "aim" is if I go to a short range weapon only hunt around here, for deer or elk, and then for only 1 or 2 shots. I can shoot it flinch free through 25 3", full power slugs, I know that, I just don't like it (and I get a mild black eye). For clays and HD, sighting just above the barrel has proven to work extremely well for me.

I think my next purchase for it will be a monte carlo type stock, if I can find one that works well with me...
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