The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 28, 2012, 08:28 PM   #1
browninghunter86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2011
Posts: 524
Neck Sizing Dies

What is the best neck sizing die for bolt action rifles? LEE Collet Die or the other companies or are they all the same?

Redding, RCBS, Forester.......
browninghunter86 is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 10:39 PM   #2
NESHOOTER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2009
Posts: 509
I do not own forrester or Redding but I own Hornady Match Dies and they have a .002 increment for tighter tolerences (and assist over working the brass neck) bushing for the necksizer. I use these for my target rifle and I can not talk bad about them.
NESHOOTER is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 10:58 PM   #3
WWWJD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Central KY
Posts: 516
I started out using the Lee Collet die, and accuracy / concentricity took a huge leap forward. Unfortunately, the shoulders do creep forward after just a few loadings. That leaves two options; full length sizing, or the bushing shoulder bump die from Forster. I've only got the one rifle, so using the shoulder bump neck sizing die is working just as good for me accuracy wise, and I'm not over working the brass. Full length sizing wouldn't be a problem either as long as the die doesn't pull the necks out on extraction. If/when I go to full length size, it'll probably be with a Forster. Their expander balls are high enough on the stem that they expand the neck while it's still being held center in the die. The Redding FL sizer I have now just makes me mad; concentricity is awful by comparison to the Forster die I'm using.
WWWJD is offline  
Old June 28, 2012, 11:39 PM   #4
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,482
And I've been using Redding's Body Dies for shoulder setback in conjunction with the Lee Collet Die for the neck, and so far it's been an excellent combination. I can bump back 0.000"-0.001" for bolts actions and 0.002" for the semi-auto long range match loads.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 07:05 AM   #5
tpcollins
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2009
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 445
Quote:
Unfortunately, the shoulders do creep forward after just a few loadings.
How do you check shoulder creep?
__________________
What direction did that last shot at Kennedy come from?
tpcollins is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 07:28 AM   #6
WWWJD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2011
Location: Central KY
Posts: 516
Quote:
tpcollins: How do you check shoulder creep?
I forgot about the body dies Unclenick; thanks. Haven't tried that. I almost went that route but figured I'd give the Forster a try since it's a one step solution.

The rifle will tell you when you need to bump your shoulders back; force required to close the bolt will increase / become irregular. Like Unclenick said, it only takes 1 or 2 thousandths to get things back to good. When I started having the problem, I bought a Wilson Case Gauge for reference; as it turns out, the rounds that were tight for me were at the max length according to the gauge.

I could go back to the collet I guess for a few more loadings, but the Forster die's been working so well I'm going to leave it be. Now I'm just periodically checking case length in the Wilson Gauge after sizing to make sure I'm consistent.

I still may have to go Unclenick's route at some point; the Forster sizes the neck from the outside in. As the brass flows forward in these cases, the neck tension is inevitably going to increase as the neck wall thickness increases. The collet die doesn't suffer this problem, as the necks are sized against a mandrel on the I.D. of the neck. There's neck turning.... ehh. Don't know if I'd want to tackle that or not. I'm kind of lazy.
__________________
~Mark

NRA fo Life Member
WWWJD is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 08:42 AM   #7
browninghunter86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2011
Posts: 524
I think I will get the Redding Body die instead of new die sets since I already have the LEE Collet Die so the Redding Die is only like $28 I believe. This die sounds easier to set-up than the FL sizing die I am using

Also trying to decide what Seating Die to upgrade too and this should be even better for me. Leaning towards the Redding Competition Seating Die or the Forester Seating Die


Thanks for all the info everyone
browninghunter86 is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 01:56 PM   #8
amamnn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 13, 2006
Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA
Posts: 1,323
Forster makes a Bump/Neck die that can set back the shoulder while using a bushing to reset the neck--or not as you choose. I have 3 and they work just fine. I use them in conjunction with Redding S type FL dies. The forster die will not work with redding or wilson bushings but the Redding S die works with Forster bushings.....anyone familiar with the Colt/ S&W competition for army contracts back in the 19th century might get a chuckle over that.........
__________________
"If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal
amamnn is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 03:09 PM   #9
browninghunter86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2011
Posts: 524
Lock Rings

What brand lock rings do y'all prefer?
browninghunter86 is offline  
Old June 29, 2012, 07:26 PM   #10
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,108
I use bushing type dies for my neck sizing and I use a Redding body die for sizing most times depending on caliber if they make it. The Redding type S FL die is a body die also here is clip from Redding "Note: By removing the bushing and all internal parts, the Type-S full bushing die may also be used as a body die."
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam
VFW
old roper is offline  
Old June 30, 2012, 07:02 PM   #11
Smokey Joe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2001
Location: State of Confusion
Posts: 2,064
Neck sizing...

Browning Hunter 86--Another fan of the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die here. I have 'em in several bottle-neck rifle calibers, and like the results quite a bit. Accuracy and concentricity are good with this die.

I do find the shoulder of the case to creep north just a bit with each reloading--When the force required to close the bolt on the cases becomes excessive, I FL-size the cases, then go back to the LCNS die for several more reloadings.

This works quite well on all of my "standard" cartridges. With my .300 WSM, the highest pressure cartridge I shoot, however, the shoulder creeps forward more, and I find that this cartridge needs FL sizing more frequently. The LCNS die still works, but with the more frequent FL sizing the LCNS die is less of an advantage. Still gives nice accuracy, though.

As to "All the same," the bushing dies resize the neck from the outside, while the LCNS die resizes from the inside, which reputedly gives more consistent neck tension, w/o having to turn the necks. I dunno, no experience with bushing dies.

Bottom line: I for one am happy with the LCNS dies. Best?? That's always going to be contentious.
__________________
God Bless America

--Smokey Joe
Smokey Joe is offline  
Old June 30, 2012, 11:39 PM   #12
Wayne_E
Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2009
Location: Washington (the state)
Posts: 26
When using a body die with the Lee collet die, do you use the body die first then the collet die?
Wayne_E is offline  
Old July 2, 2012, 12:58 PM   #13
browninghunter86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2011
Posts: 524
I believe you use collet die then the body die...someone will verify this I am sure after me
browninghunter86 is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 01:01 AM   #14
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,482
You can experiment with both orders of business to see if one does better than the other on your equipment or not. The reason for the collet die going first is to have the case as fat as possible for centering in the collet die sleeve. My cases have been staying straight enough with that approach, that I just haven't got around to trying the reverse order. I should. I have been doing this process only with sorted cases with low wall runout, and I can see how a banana shaped case, with thin wall on one side, might be straightened enough by the body die to throw the neck axis off. In that case body die first would seem reasonable. I'll have to dig out a really bad case to try that with.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Old July 8, 2012, 03:22 PM   #15
browninghunter86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 14, 2011
Posts: 524
Sizing Die

anyone every tried this with LEE FL Sizing dies?

http://practicalrifler.6.forumer.com...pic.php?t=1171

I tried this but I don't think the Lee dies are set up for this to work
browninghunter86 is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 07:35 AM   #16
Bart B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Posts: 5,434
The most accurate bottleneck reloaded ammo I know of all's been made by full length sizing fired cases with bushing dies (no expander ball) setting the shoulder back and reducing body diameters no more than 1 or 2 thousandths.

It's an old myth that neck only sized bottleneck cases fit the chamber and align bullets better with the bore than what full length sized cases do. If one knows how bottleneck cases headspacing on their shoulders fit the chamber when fired, you'll probably understand.

I've got better accuracy with new cases compared to neck only sized fired ones.

Last edited by Bart B.; July 9, 2012 at 09:38 AM.
Bart B. is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 03:09 PM   #17
wncchester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2002
Posts: 2,832
The value of neck sizing is 'iffy', at best.

I have several conventional neck dies and there's no real difference between brands. After I got my first Lee Collet Neck Sizer years ago, just to try, I bought one for each of my better rifles and haven't used the conventional types again.
wncchester is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 06:55 PM   #18
old roper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2007
Posts: 1,108
I started back using bushing neck dies over 30 yrs ago shooting BR with the 6ppc and other calibers for the HBR matches. As I stared having my hunting/varmint rifle rebarreled I continued using those type dies and still use them today.

I'm not shooting matches anymore and I can load at the range I see no point in preloading. Since I use a new unfried case on each work up load I'm interested to see how that prints and if it's not far out of the neck sizes ones I may reworks loads using only new cases.

Some of the first rifles I had new barrel put on were the ones necking sizing made no difference in groups.

Before I got into BR I FL sized everything and I just learned another way of doing things.
__________________
Semper Fi
Vietnam
VFW
old roper is offline  
Old July 10, 2012, 10:33 AM   #19
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,482
Either method works pretty well. I have a couple of Redding bushing dies and, as Bart describes, as long as you don't use an expander and you select the right bushing they don't pull the necks off axis or overwork them. The two advantages the Lee Collet Die has are that the mandrel prevents a donut from ever forming, and their setup and operation aren't affected by how thick the neck brass is, for those who don't turn their necks to uniform wall thickness.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member
Unclenick is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10476 seconds with 9 queries