The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 9, 2012, 05:49 PM   #51
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 7,843
Quote:
I have to disagree.
You can disagree all you want, but I've been following accounts of locking blocks breaking since 1989. The "fix" when the slide can't be moved is to cut the barrel, especially when both ears break. The more you manipulate the barrel, the more you will gouge up the soft aluminum frame. That's what happened to my PT-99, frame rails were pretty marred up from trying to get it apart. Of course, back then there was no internet to spread the word on how to fix these, so me...and my gun smith didn't know that the barrel should be cut.

Oh, and my locking block had less than 500 rounds on it when it broke. Ammo was standard Fiocchi 9mm.

The fact that a part breaks on a gun really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the overall design. It's really the damage that was done to the aluminum frame that bothered me. That, and the "fix" requiring that (in many cases) the barrel must be cut to get the gun apart.

Let's not forget that the 92 is a big bulky gun designed to fire 9mm. If it fired 10mm, or 440 Corbon, maybe I could just say "stuff happens", but come on! I have more rounds through my Ruger LC9 that is 1/3 the size and weight than the PT-99 when it broke.

They look cool (when new) and shoot straight - that's about the best thing I can say for these guns.
Skans is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 05:54 PM   #52
Striker1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 635
Just telling you how we did it and never saw one where the barrel had to be cut.
Striker1 is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 06:50 PM   #53
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
95% of the guys on this forum won't run 5k rounds in any pistol let alone 15k. Keep it maintained, clean and the 92 will do everything asked of it.

15k rounds in 9mm = $3,750 for non-reloaders
Well, I have 9 of them, but my main carry one has over 4k in a little over 2 years. I'd have probably 8k in it if I shot it exclusively

Last edited by ShipWreck; July 9, 2012 at 09:05 PM.
ShipWreck is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 07:12 PM   #54
rgrundy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2012
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 188
I've owned a couple of 92's. They were reliable, reasonably accurate and I shot them alot. The decocker was too easy to disable the pistol with so I'd say it isn't my choice for a fighting pistol. The sights need improvement. The long DA trigger pull makes it slow to get the first shot on target but is very light and smooth. It has too much muzzle flip for a 9 because of the height of the barrel above the frame. It cycles slowly and cannot be shot very quickly. I shot one a couple of years ago about 8000 rounds in steel competition just for fun and never did as well with it as any Glock or SIG I shot. Had very few malfunctions though. There are much better more accurate pistols out there for the money.
rgrundy is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 07:37 PM   #55
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 855
it's not what we like it's what John McClane likes

mines almost 40 years old and it still ticks and chugs along

Last edited by TxFlyFish; July 9, 2012 at 07:43 PM.
TxFlyFish is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 11:38 PM   #56
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,339
Quote:
It cycles slowly and cannot be shot very quickly.
This is an interesting claim--one I've heard before about various pistols. In this case, there's a select-fire version of the 92FS, the 93R. Since cyclic rate is a quoted spec on select-fire weapons we can get some actual data on the inherent cyclic rate of the 92FS system.

The cyclic rate is somewhere around 1100rpm--ignoring the fact that the 93R is modified slightly from the 92FS in order to slow the cyclic rate. That amounts to the gun being capable of splits of about 0.055 seconds--18 shots a second. I am not aware of any shooters who are capable of manipulating the trigger of a pistol fast enough to achieve 18 shots a second.
Quote:
There are much better more accurate pistols out there for the money.
In my experience, the 92 pistols are actually quite accurate once you get the trigger mastered. Some of the best groups I've ever shot with a service-style autopistol were from a 92 back when I was shooting them almost exclusively.

There are more accurate autopistols out there, but not there aren't many at all, in my experience, avaiable at prices significantly lower than what you'll pay for a 92.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old July 9, 2012, 11:46 PM   #57
Beentown71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipWreck View Post
Well, I have 9 of them, but my main carry one has over 4k in a little over 2 years. I'd have probably 8k in it if I shot it exclusively
Again, I think you are in the major minority. Mine has 3,500 through it with no issues. It has taken me 4 years to get there with it. I use other pistols for comps so that is part of the reason for the low round count.

Another Con for me is I don't use them for any type of comp. I have a hard time transitioning from DA to SA. With enough time behind its trigger and I think I could work most of it out....but not all.

I still love my INOX 92!

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
Beentown71 is offline  
Old July 10, 2012, 03:11 PM   #58
10mm4ever
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 752
No fighting pistol I have ever trusted more out of the box than the 92FS/M9.
10mm4ever is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 12:01 AM   #59
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 331
Quote:
Let's not forget that the 92 is a big bulky gun designed to fire 9mm. If it fired 10mm, or 440 Corbon, maybe I could just say "stuff happens", but come on! I have more rounds through my Ruger LC9 that is 1/3 the size and weight than the PT-99 when it broke.
I thought I'd seen every legitimate and illegitimate complaint about the Beretta 92 over the years. . . .

But blaming Beretta for Taurus' sins? That's a beyond the pale first. Why not go all of the way and blame Walther for the P-38?

AT BEST, the PT-99 is a license built copy of a Model 92 from the late 70s. Only made worse, with inferior machining and metallurgy. Arguably, the PT-99 is Taurus' most successfully selling auto loader only because Beretta designed it. Taurus' home brewed designs have been totally underwhelming by comparison.

AT WORST, the PT-99 is a shoddy clone, indifferently made and assembled, just like every Taurus product. The only thing certain that can be said of buying a Taurus clone over the original design, be it Beretta's or S&W's, is that the buyer was a cheapskate. Was Taurus' CS so bad that you had an unknowledgable gunsmith hacking on the barrel instead?

Whatever. Taurus doesn't incorporate any, ANY, product improvements made to the Model 92 over the years back in Italy or at BUSA. Blaming Beretta for crappy Brasilian clones is like blaming Colt's for crappy Filipino 1911s.

With the M9 rapidly approaching three decades of service, with improvements large and small made by the manufacturer, the quality gulf between the original and the clone in this instance is extreme.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 12:30 AM   #60
ragwd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2006
Posts: 899
Ive only have mine for about a year, so I dont have a lot of experience with it. The only con is that it isnt a 45 acp.
ragwd is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 08:17 PM   #61
Cycrops
Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 99
Quote:
Does not like +P
I had not heard this before. Can anyone confirm/deny? I've only fired 100 rounds or so of +P Remington Golden Saber JHP through mine (92A1), but it functions fine for me. I keep mine loaded with this as HD ammo, so I'm curious as to whether the gun really has this reputation.

Last edited by Cycrops; July 11, 2012 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Clarifying I have a 92A1, not a 92FS.
Cycrops is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 08:45 PM   #62
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,794
Nato ammo the boys overseas are using is on the hot side (+P ) at least. No issues, just shoot the hell out of it and enjoy. Thats what its made for.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 08:51 PM   #63
cslinger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 14, 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 952
AFAIK, Nato ammo is most certainly hotter but I believe it is still less then +P pressures. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that is the case.

Chris
__________________
"Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"
cslinger is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 09:05 PM   #64
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 331
The 92 has been firing .40S&W for decades as the 96. The 92 can handle a diet of hot 9mm.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 09:27 PM   #65
reticle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2002
Location: ut.
Posts: 312
I've had two. I love the 92f. The only con I can think of is that an opponent can disassemble the slide from the frame with one hand while you are holding it if he knows what he's doing. This of course leaves him with your slide in his hand and just the frame in yours...
reticle is offline  
Old July 11, 2012, 10:00 PM   #66
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 331
Quote:
I've had two. I love the 92f. The only con I can think of is that an opponent can disassemble the slide from the frame with one hand while you are holding it if he knows what he's doing. This of course leaves him with your slide in his hand and just the frame in yours...
I openly invite any person on the planet to attempt this on mine over a chambered simunitions round backed by a full mag of the same stuff and see what happens in the real world outside of Lethal Weapon 4.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 12:20 AM   #67
Quentin2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,637
It's big, heavy and awkward. No matter what the positives, it's just not a Hi Power.
Quentin2 is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 12:32 AM   #68
reticle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2002
Location: ut.
Posts: 312
Gats, if you know it's coming, you can defend against it. Trouble is, most will not expect it. The adversary need only reach with the left hand, grab the slide and push outward while pinching the right side slide release button with his middle finger and slipping the left side slide release lever with his thumb. He yanks the slide forward as he steps to his right. I showed this to my 16 yr old without his prior knowlege as to what I intended. I just told him to resist. He was stunned to be standing there with a frame and magazine while I held the slide and brought it down on his head to simulate an incapacitating blow. Just something to consider.

I still love 'em, but I carry an HK
reticle is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 12:37 AM   #69
Sarge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 4,911
Safety works the wrong direction from the wrong location, but this is easily remedied by getting a G model in the first place.
__________________
I'm inclined to think if a man hasn't gotten his point across in 4912 attempts, 4913 probably isn't going to do it.
Sarge is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 12:39 AM   #70
Gats Italian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2008
Posts: 331
It's still a cheap stunt, not a legitimate disarming tactic.

If you have your 92FS out, and ready to fire, and you let someone get ahold of it, you have more immediate problems than whether someone can possibly rip the slide from it.
__________________
Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Gats Italian is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 12:54 AM   #71
Cheapshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2007
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4,343
Quote:
Nato ammo the boys overseas are using is on the hot side (+P ) at least. No issues, just shoot the hell out of it and enjoy. Thats what its made for.
Quote:
AFAIK, Nato ammo is most certainly hotter but I believe it is still less then +P pressures. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that is the case.
I did a little research on Midway's site. Now IF what they are selling as surplus, or over run is Winchester NATO ammo, and IF the published specs are correct, it is the same as WWB. 124 gr. @ 1140 fps. Winchester Ranger 9MM NATO 124 gr. is listed at 1185 fps, and Supreme Elite PDX1 +P at 1200 fps.
Of course other manufacturers may have different specs, but what I found most interesting is that the Winchester NATO surplus that they are selling appears to be the same thing as good olle Winchester USA ( Winchester white Box).

Quote:
You won't find this anywhere else! MidwayUSA was able to purchase a VERY LIMITED quantity of US Military 9mm Luger handgun ammunition manufactured by Winchester. This is the exact same ammunition currently being shipped to American soliders overseas. A very rare find - once it's gone, it's gone, so order today! Available in 50 or 500 count boxes.
In the end though, the NATO, the WWB, and everything else I've put in my 92fs has worked flawlessly!
__________________
Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!
Cheapshooter is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 06:14 AM   #72
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
I've had two. I love the 92f. The only con I can think of is that an opponent can disassemble the slide from the frame with one hand while you are holding it if he knows what he's doing. This of course leaves him with your slide in his hand and just the frame in yours...
Since this has come up AGAIN, I thought I'd say something about it...

If someone has their hand on your gun like this - they can just take it from you. Also, push the slide back on any semi auto, and its "deactivated" as long as the slide is held back. Once again, you have a ton of problems. They can just as well take your gun out of your hands.

Anyway - here is a picture from the Lethal Weapon movie everyone loves to think about when this subject comes up..... Notice the disassembly lever is ALREADY down...



If you are going to let THIS stop you from buying a Beretta 92, then its just ridiculous...
ShipWreck is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 06:41 AM   #73
wllfthn
Member
 
Join Date: July 2, 2012
Posts: 48
Wow! I can't believe how much activity this thread is getting. Thanks for all the info guys. It will all come in handy down the road. I already purchased my 92fs, so as I said earlier in the thread, this is just something for me to reference to if I have any issues.

But! To all the people here who own (or have owned) a 92fs, what ammo do you recommend for
- Range, Plinking, Practice
- Home Defense, Carry, SHTF

Thanks again for all the info here!

WF
wllfthn is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 06:56 AM   #74
Sarge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 4,911
Mine was a Centurion G. I'd say "whatever ball is cheap" for general shooting. I carried Federal 115 grain 9BPLE in mine but today, I'd probably carry a good 147 grain Golden Saber, Ranger SXT or Federal HST.
__________________
I'm inclined to think if a man hasn't gotten his point across in 4912 attempts, 4913 probably isn't going to do it.
Sarge is offline  
Old July 12, 2012, 08:26 AM   #75
ShipWreck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
Wow! I can't believe how much activity this thread is getting. Thanks for all the info guys. It will all come in handy down the road. I already purchased my 92fs, so as I said earlier in the thread, this is just something for me to reference to if I have any issues.

But! To all the people here who own (or have owned) a 92fs, what ammo do you recommend for
- Range, Plinking, Practice
- Home Defense, Carry, SHTF
I like 124gr Federal Hydrashocks for defense. They are VERY accurate. Golddot 124gr (not the +p) is also sometimes used... When the ammo run began after Obama was elected - 124gr Hydrshocks were no where to be seen for months. So, I had to switch to Golddots for a while.

I like the 115gr Critical Defense in my M&P Shield. But I find it shoots low in my 92's.

For target practice - I have had some issues with that cheap Wal-Mart red box Federal ammo. Once I saw others commenting about the same thing at the Beretta Forum, I quit using it. Any problems I had went away.

I use wither WWB from wal-mart or CCI Blazer aluminum.
ShipWreck is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14846 seconds with 9 queries