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Old July 6, 2012, 08:57 AM   #1
4runnerman
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powders

Ok- Looking for info on 2 powders. What is the difference between these 2 powders.

H-4895
IMR 4895.

Shooting a 308. Having great luck with H-4895,but some same i should try IMR-4895.
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Old July 6, 2012, 09:35 AM   #2
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They have slightly different burn rates and thus, produce different pressures. If you try the IMR 4895, reduce your loads by at least 10% and work back up!

I have found that some of my guns such as the .220 Swift like the IMR products better and my .243 like the Hodgdon powders better! Don't know why?
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Old July 6, 2012, 01:54 PM   #3
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Thanks- So IMR-4895 has a faster burn rate?.
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Old July 6, 2012, 02:01 PM   #4
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No sir. Slower. On my chart, H4895 is listed at 110 and IMR 4895 is 114. But they will produce different pressure curves, so you still need to start lower and work up when substituting one for the other.
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Old July 6, 2012, 02:05 PM   #5
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According to Hodgdon, who sells both powders, IMR 4895 is slightly slower than H4895. Hodgdon lists H4895 at 87 on their burn rate chart, and IMR 4895 at 89. They are very close in burn rate, but we can draw no conclusions based on that. They are two different powders. Additionally, one is made in Canada and the other in Australia. There is also a British 4895 made in England, and I'd be surprised if other counties aren't making a similar powder as well. They share similar properties, but should not be confused.
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Old July 6, 2012, 02:24 PM   #6
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...According to Hodgdon, who sells both powders,...
That is news to me...Hodgdon makes H4895, IMR (formerly Dupont), makes IMR-4895. As I remember, the original H4895 started out as military surplus from WWII. Then, Dupont began making IMR-4895 because of the popularity of H4895. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Old July 6, 2012, 02:29 PM   #7
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Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders are all sold by the same company!
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Old July 6, 2012, 04:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
As I remember, the original H4895 started out as military surplus from WWII.
Yep, you're absolutely correct. Bruce Hodgdon bought 50,000 lbs of duPont 4895 and began marketing it as Hodgdon 4895. Later, duPont closed its US plant and moved production to Canada. They also began selling IMR (Improved Military Powder) under their own brand. In the meantime, Hodgdon began buying Australian Powder and marketing it as H4895. Nowadays Hodgdon owns the marketing rights for Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, and GOEX powders. The company buys powders from Canada, Australia, and St. Marks plant in Florida.

It's interesting to note that IMR and ADI both market a powder known as Trail Boss, and ADI claims that they are compatibly equivalent. ADI is the Australian powder and they have a compatibility chart that is very interesting.

It's also interesting to note that Hogdon 110 and Winchester 296 are exactly the same powder. Hodgdon will tell you that they only change the label on the jug. Same powder.
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Old July 6, 2012, 04:45 PM   #9
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The Hogdon Powder Co, is only 30 mins away,(when traffic is good)I generally buy my powder from Bass Pro or Cabelas in Kansas City Kansas,(i gotta stay away from there). oh yeah : help@hogdon.com
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Old July 7, 2012, 09:53 AM   #10
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Powders- Who is making what?

MSDS > http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html and http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/msds.aspx http://www.photobucket.com/firearmsreloading When you open a new container of powder, always use a starting load & work up for safety. The can may look the same, but what is inside might be from a new/different powder company. St. Marks & Alliant formed the American Powder Company around 2000 .

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Old July 7, 2012, 10:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 243winxb
When you open a new container of powder, always use a starting load & work up for safety. The can may look the same, but what is inside might be from a new/different powder company.

Caution is warranted but that's a wee bit extreme.

If you note the Lot # from your jugs, you may well find that your new jug is that same Lot # as your old jug. In which case, no change is warranted whatsoever.

Even with a new lot number, reduction of about 5% are generally considered sufficient.

Most powders vary (in theory) slightly from lot to lot but wholesale changes in the formulation, that affect pressure, are pretty rare.
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Old July 7, 2012, 10:49 AM   #12
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If you note the Lot # from your jugs, you may well find that your new jug is that same Lot # as your old jug. In which case, no change is warranted whatsoever.
Good point. But will the "age" of the same lot# burn the same??
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Old July 7, 2012, 11:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 243winxb
Good point. But will the "age" of the same lot# burn the same??
Under the same storage conditions, yes they will. I'm sure that if you stored one canister of powder in your freezer for 10 years and another canister in was left in a hot garage, there might be some small change, but generally we can accept that the powder lot was all manufactured together and is generally identical.
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Old July 7, 2012, 11:22 AM   #14
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It's interesting to note that IMR and ADI both market a powder known as Trail Boss, and ADI claims that they are compatibly equivalent.
Because Hodgdon buys ADI powder and markets it here. If you look at Hodgdon and ADI load tables you will see where Hodgdon gets their data from for some of their powder.

Hodgdon does not make powder...they just market powder....except IMR and GOEX.

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Old July 7, 2012, 11:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
That is news to me...Hodgdon makes H4895, IMR (formerly Dupont), makes IMR-4895.
Quote:
Nowadays Hodgdon owns the marketing rights for Hodgdon, IMR, Winchester, and GOEX powders.
Hodgdon bought IMR in 2003 and GOEX in 2009. Winchester powders are the only ones licensed to Hodgdon.

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Old July 7, 2012, 11:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 243winxb
Good point. But will the "age" of the same lot# burn the same??
There's plenty of variables but, generally speaking, yes.

I have a can of Unique that was dated to the late 50s or so. It burns within (or produces velocities anyway) about 10% of modern data. Not only is it 50 or so years old but Unique has since been reformulated so it's almost worst case scenario.
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