The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 3, 2012, 12:19 PM   #1
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 1,986
My bad or not?

I'm a land owner. I have 160 acres of woods up against 3000 acres of State land. My land is posted during the hunting seasons as to allow my son and I to hunt without disturbance. But when asked I do let a few additional hunters on to hunt without asking for favors or monetary gain. My question is: Since I'm the land owner do I have the right not to allow someone to hunt with a small caliber rifle after I've already given him permission to hunt earlier in the day or before that day? I much prefer if someone were to hunt my property they would use a bottle neck type cartridge verses straight wall even with the State law siding against me on this issue. ( 444 & 45-70 are exempt in this situation) Last Fall I let two younger gentlemen on to hunt who had asked for permission of me while in a grocery store with my wife. Showing up the day before hunting seasons opening in my drive way. I took both out in the woods for a look see and offered them a 20 acre swamp and a small hill side to watch over. The first day of hunting. At noon one young gent (mid 20s) walks up to me carrying a 30-cal carbine. A little time later his pal walks up to us with his grandpaws 25-20. Can you see my point? Or was I on the hook? because I didn't lay down the ground rules I would like to see prior. (State law here: 30 carbine is legal for the very first year last year. But I don't think the 25-20 is because of its overall lenght) What say you?
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 12:31 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,399
It's your land. You have the right to allow or not allow whatever you'd like. You can require all hunters to have purple hair if you'd like.

For future reference, I'd make any caliber restrictions clear at the moment you give permission. That's hindsight though.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 3, 2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Typo
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old July 3, 2012, 12:37 PM   #3
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,473
Entirely your call !!!

Whenever I get on a new place or revisit and old one, I always ask about firearms restrictions as well as other details. Now, I know you can't expect averyone to do so but you certainly have a right to determine what you can and will not allow, on your property. .....

Hunters need to keep in mind that "most" of the time, you are not really doing the landowner, any favors. It's a privledge not a right, to be there. It's your land, it's your rules, regardless !! ....

Be Safe !!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 12:38 PM   #4
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,702
You are the owner = you call the shots.

If you wanted to make hunting only between the hurs of 10 AM and 1PM while wearing a pink tutu and matching feather boa a requirement, you could stipulate that..... though you would have to make any stipulations plain at the outset.

If they don't want to follow your rules, they can always try to find someplace else to hunt.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 12:41 PM   #5
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 5,291
Next year - you have the right to specify conditions. Put it all in writing.I would also include that the permission is for that person ONLY [no friends, relatives] .
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 12:53 PM   #6
Doc Intrepid
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 831
Agree with putting it in writing.

Set forth any restrictions you like (in advance) - as noted, its your private property.

But also include verbiage that you're not responsible for hunters who shoot themselves in the foot tripping over a root, etc. Reasonable disclaimers.

A verbal agreement leaves far too many opportunities for you to learn to your vast disappointment that "No good deed goes unpunished". Regrettably its a litigious society. So long as nothing goes wrong its all good, but should something tragic happen you'd be surprised just how bad things can become.

Put agreements in writing. Make them sign it.

Just MHO. YMMV.
__________________
Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.
Doc Intrepid is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 01:02 PM   #7
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,473
Very important !!

Quote:
I would also include that the permission is for that person ONLY [no friends, relatives] .
Amen to that !!! ....

Be Safe !!!
__________________
'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.
Pahoo is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 01:39 PM   #8
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,225
I also agree with the majority above. It's your land, so you can set any restrictions you wish. That said -- state the restrictions up front. If you tell me on Friday that I can start hunting your land at 05:00 on Saturday, then you come out at 13:00 on Saturday and tell me I can't use the rifle I brought ... that's not fair on your part. Don't change the rules (or add new ones) in the middle of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sure Shot McGee
At noon one young gent (mid 20s) walks up to me carrying a 30-cal carbine. A little time later his pal walks up to us with his grandpaws 25-20. Can you see my point? Or was I on the hook? because I didn't lay down the ground rules I would like to see prior. (State law here: 30 carbine is legal for the very first year last year. But I don't think the 25-20 is because of its overall lenght) What say you?
Actually, I don't see your point here. You opened up the post asking about calibers you don't like. Then, at the end, you suggest that .25-20 may not be legal. If it isn't legal, it doesn't make any difference whether or not you stated a restriction before-hand ... illegal is illegal, whether or not you said "I don't like that caliber."

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; July 3, 2012 at 01:44 PM.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 04:09 PM   #9
sonick808
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 396
your land, your rules. You can grant, retract, move add and change whatever you want. As others have said, specificity is good. WHO is allowed ONLY, and WHEN, strictly.
sonick808 is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 05:14 PM   #10
doofus47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2010
Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent
Posts: 1,254
Nice of you to share. Not enough of that out there anymore.

But to answer your question: yes, you get to make the call. I think that pointing out to hunters that they are using rifles that not legal is doing them a favor.

If you told them they could come back when they brought their legal firearms, then you would be completely correct, imo.
doofus47 is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 06:10 PM   #11
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 1,986
Let me clarify a little here. Both asked for permission to hunt. I said they could. But I didn't know what type of rifles they were going to use. For the sake of conversation: One rifle caliber was illegal the other was legal under law. But I'd prefer that they both use something more substantial than what they brought. A 30-30 or even a 25-35 would have made me happy. But a 30 carbine & 25-20.

When we all met up at lunch time that first day. I looked at their rifles and said: "No this isn't going to work for me." I asked both to go home or borrow another rifle from someone no less than a 30-30 and come finish their hunt that day or come the next day and so on till they both got their deer. No sass or questions and both apologized. The two young men got into one vehicle waved and I could see the disappointment on their faces drove away and never returned.

I felt bad and still do as I gave them both permission to hunt on posted land and consider doing so a Verbal Contract between them and I. Neither of us asking nor told what types of rifles were going to be used or required. Spoiled the day for me and their hunt. I hope they both come back this coming Fall. As for permission to hunt. I've never had to ask hunters about their rifles before in all the years I've let others on. But I think its a good point to bring up from now on. Someone gets hurt I have decent insurance on the property. Being up against the Canadian Border we have some really big deer here that don't deserve to die miles away from were they were shot by puny underpowered such cartridges is how I feel about such things.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 06:26 PM   #12
Daggitt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2011
Posts: 321
Requiring 30/30 or larger is not unreasonable at all in my opinion.
Daggitt is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 06:34 PM   #13
Brennan19
Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2012
Posts: 17
I love to be able to hunt with a 30-30 here in (IN) but that is a no no here. But i would agree your land your rules
Brennan19 is offline  
Old July 3, 2012, 08:29 PM   #14
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,456
Quote:
It's your land. You have the right to allow or not allow whatever you'd like. You can require all hunters to have purple hair if you'd like.
+1. It's your land so call it as you see fit. If they don't like it, they can find another place to hunt.

When I was a kid my Uncle had a small pond and allowed us to fish there. He didn't allow us to keep them and wanted them thrown back in. I wanted to fish there so I did as he asked. His land, his pond, his rules. Your land, your rules.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 12:01 AM   #15
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,930
The 25-20 is illegal to hunt with correct?

I wouldn't feel to bad about asking someone to at least obey the law whilst hunting my property. Too, I would also question further the knowledge/experience/character of the hunter using the known illegal firearm.
shortwave is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 08:50 AM   #16
Uncle Buck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 21, 2009
Location: West Central Missouri
Posts: 2,559
You should have seen my Dad shoot with a 30 carbine. Someday, I may be able to shoot like he did... But now that he is getting old and his eye sight is not as good as it was, he shoots like me.


It is your land, your rules, so long as they do not violate the state laws. I got rid of my land leases about two - three years ago. I would get calls and have people stop by to ask if they could hunt down by the river, or back towards that cornfield just a little East of 58...

If I allowed them to hunt, I always gave them the rules and told them if they did not follow them, they would not be back.

I would make a list of rules that make you happy and always insist the folks stop by and talk to you before you give anyone permission.
__________________
Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.
Uncle Buck is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 08:52 AM   #17
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 1,986
Quote:
I wouldn't feel to bad about asking someone to at least obey the law whilst hunting my property
I don't like to break a promise or go back on my word. A hand shake or my word mean allot to me. I'm having second thoughts as being maybe to strict on this occasion. Perhaps since I already gave my permission I should have not spoken up latter on. Just bite the bullet so to speak. After all there are allot of deer in my neck of the woods. But then again I hate to see any wounded or go to waste not being able to find.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 12:01 PM   #18
USNavy_233
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2004
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 114
Your land, Your call. Definitely spell it out in detail (and in writing) next time. If for no other reason, so you don't have to find yourself in this same situation again.

But botton line, your land your call. Don't feel bad about telling them to do it your way or beat feet.
__________________
He is greatest, who is trained in the severest school.
-General Thucydides, 424 BC
USNavy_233 is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 03:22 PM   #19
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,930
Quote:
I don't like to break a promise or go back on my word. A hand shake or my word mean allot to me. I'm having second thoughts as being maybe to strict on this occasion.
Very commendable of you. A hand shake/my word means alot to me as well.

But when you gave your word, you weren't aware that one fella was going to be breaking the law on your property. Which is what he's doing by hunting with an illegal weapon.

Here's what happened to a property owner a couple farms over from me. He gave written permission(required here by law) for 3-4 guys to hunt his property.
Game warden shows up and busts one of the guys using a 30-30. Problem with that is, in Ohio, there's no rifle allowed period to hunt deer. All hunters showed warden their signed slips by property owner. Guess where the next stop was by the warden?

Naturally the property owner didn't know the fella was breaking the law on his property, but now, you can bet, every time the warden gets in this area,he makes a B-line straight to neighbors property just to check things out.

Last edited by shortwave; July 4, 2012 at 03:33 PM.
shortwave is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 03:34 PM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,399
Yeah, your word should be considered an absolute but it has to assume legal compliance by the recipient. No different than shaking on a gun purchase and then finding out its stolen. Obviously you don't buy it.

On the flip side, the guy shaking your hand implies that he will be following all laws and regulations. He is breaking the deal if he does not and you are free from the "contract", IMO.

In short, giving your word is a contract which implies honesty and being dishonest breeches and nullifies that contract.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old July 4, 2012, 08:53 PM   #21
Al Den
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2012
Posts: 150
Your land, your rules. I'd make it clear it's a one time forbearance. As for the caliber, to keep things simple, I'd probably let them use whatever is legal but ask them to confirm for you that they are compliant. Or tell 'em "shotgun only" if you even want -- KISS.
Al Den is offline  
Old July 4, 2012, 10:16 PM   #22
huntinaz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2010
Location: az
Posts: 994
Quote:
The two young men got into one vehicle waved and I could see the disappointment on their faces drove away and never returned.
The bottom line is that it's your land, you make the rules. That is true. However, I would be offended if I was granted permission to hunt, and brought a legal rifle, and at lunchtime after the first morning hunt the owner basically said "I don't like the rifle you're using, go get a different one." I'd agree it is your land. I'd agree it is your call. I will tell you, it would tick me off. I'd be bummed about being sent home. It would depend on whether or not I even had another rifle, and then how bad I wanted to hunt the property, would decide if I came back.

If the 25-20 isn't legal that's another matter. Can't be offended about that. That's not even your call, it's the law.


I feel for both parties. If I was the owner, I would not like to be the least bit uncomfortable about people hunting my land for whatever reason, even if it's just my druthers. Hindsight is 20-20 I know, and lesson learned on specifying rules before the hunt. Bummer it worked out that way but it is what it is. That's how we learn. All you can do is move on and perhaps try again.

Also, if they didn't come back then for whatever reason it wasn't a big enough deal to them to hunt your property. Whether they don't have other rifles or if it wasn't worth it to play by your rules, then it's probably not a great fit anyway. That's my overall take on it.
__________________
"Once you quit hearing sir and ma'am, the rest is soon to follow." - Cormack McCarthy
"Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy
huntinaz is offline  
Old July 5, 2012, 11:32 PM   #23
BIG P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,569
If I were one of the young guys,I would of been fine with that after all its your land your the BOSS.I probably would of ask was there anything else I could do to comply so I might gain permission to hunt agaln sometime.

Hunting land is hard to find,Hunters need to show landers more respect these days.IMO it was good of you to give the boys a chance,Wish there were more like you.
BIG P is offline  
Old July 6, 2012, 07:46 AM   #24
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Posts: 1,986
Very commendable of you Gentlemen to thread/ post to help me out here. I now feel a little easier in the old conscience department that I myself wasn't completely wrong in this situation. But as a few of you have said it's best to air the rules before hand. That's something that never occurred to me before. Up here in MN it's getting harder and harder to find hunting space if you don't own a bit land. (everything's posted) I try to be accommodating as best I can. Oh there's been a couple of foolish moves by a couple of different hunters over the years. But nothing serious other than a guy once breaking the thru the ice on a crick that had waist deep water when told not to go there by it. Before hand. No trouble for me just embarrassing for him is all. Smiles and laughter and a litt'l teasing on that move and another wandered past my property into the State Forestry Land without a compass for a 4 hr. walk. Found him well after darkness. But when guns/ rifles come into the picture I get serious about wanting guys to be careful back there in the woods. No monkey business will I tolerate. Like most of you have said (its your land, your rules, you rule) but than again I don't want to be too aggressive either.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old July 6, 2012, 08:22 PM   #25
Al Den
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2012
Posts: 150
Sure Shot, it is YOU who should be commended. For allowing the use of your land and for your attention to common sense regarding safety, the rules, and ethical hunting and land use as well as the consideration for the personal experience of the hunters.

I don't think the shooters were disappointed in anyone but themselves by the way...
Al Den is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13855 seconds with 9 queries