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Old September 20, 2011, 03:00 AM   #26
jgcoastie
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Quote:
Can a flashlight by definition be tactical.. sure
No.

As I have said numerous times in many threads; inanimate objects are incapable of acting upon, or making, a goal-specific decision. See the definition I posted above.

Flashlights (along with other inanimate objects) are not tactical in and of themselves. Sure, they can be used for a tactical purpose or they can just be used to find your keys under the couch...

The implication that so many things are tactical is dangerous. Something that is capable of employing decision-making and tactics to achieve a specific goal or objective would (theoretically) also be capable of acting independantly. So then guns could kill people by themselves, and flashlighs would turn on whenever they felt like it. As we all know, this is not the case.

YOU are the tactical piece of the equasion, not your equipment. The equipment requires you to use it in a tactical manner for it to be "tactical". Equipment can not be tactical just lying on a shelf in the garage, not being used by anyone...
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Old September 20, 2011, 03:39 AM   #27
ClydeFrog
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I disagree; symantics...

I respectfully disagree. Tactical can be a adjective or describe a tool or method that could both work properly and/or save someone's life.
To argue over symantics or what a word means isn't really related to the topic.
Many forum members here distort posts or remarks then complain about points that clearly explain what the forum member is saying.

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Old September 20, 2011, 04:19 AM   #28
R1145
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My agency trains 3 techniques: FBI, Harries and Chapman. The FBI technique is what you described, holding the light off to the side or above with a one-handed grip on the handgun. The other techniques are two-handed firing positions, with Harries having your hands crossed back-to-back, while the Chapman has you holding the light alongside your weapon.

They are all valid techniques, with the choice being made by the situation and/or the location of the switch on the flashlight. The FBI techniques is good for searching, with the Harries or Chapman used when actually engaging.

My agency allows weapon lights, but I don't have one on my handgun. I think I will have a flashlight out anyway, and would need to fumble with it to put it away (or drop it, I guess) when drawing my weapon. Also, we train to use the support hand only to activate the switch, which tends to negate the advantage of having a one-handed system. I could see using a weapon light for a specialized application (like a K-9 or boat handler assignment), but think they generally belong only on long guns.

I think most self-defense handgun use in low light will be point shooting, but, that said, night sights are an advantage if you end up in a situation where you have the chance to aim. It's easy to shoot the target with your light beam, while your handgun is pointed off to the side. I've even heard that it is best to point your flashlight off target, so that you use a proper aiming technique with your weapon.

Practice using your light, at least so you get used to the manipulations. What are you going to do with the light during a mag change or malfunction?
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Old September 20, 2011, 04:31 AM   #29
ClydeFrog
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My local PD; weapon lights, holsters....

In my metro area, most of the patrol officers in the PD(800+ sworn LE officers) I see carry the issue P226R 9x19mm or .40 with a tactical light in Safariland SFS/ALS type holsters day & night.
Weapon light or white light systems are a choice for many but there are a lot of benefits in some events, IMO.

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Old September 21, 2011, 07:49 PM   #30
FireForged
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Quote:
I respectfully disagree. Tactical can be a adjective or describe a tool or method that could both work properly and/or save someone's life.
To argue over symantics or what a word means isn't really related to the topic.
Many forum members here distort posts or remarks then complain about points that clearly explain what the forum member is saying.

ClydeFrog
well said.
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Old September 21, 2011, 08:12 PM   #31
Nnobby45
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Quote:
The implication that so many things are tactical is dangerous. Something that is capable of employing decision-making and tactics to achieve a specific goal or objective would (theoretically) also be capable of acting independantly. So then guns could kill people by themselves, and flashlighs would turn on whenever they felt like it. As we all know, this is not the case
Good grief!

A tactical flashlight is simply a light with a design making it easier to use in a TACTICAL SITUATION--that is, deployed with the gun so you can ID targets and see to shoot. It can be used to check the dark recesses of parking garages and stairwells, etc., etc.,---borderline (possible) tactical situations.

Now, take mine for example (I like the plain 'ol SureFire 6P). It doesn't deploy istself independently. I make the decisions--not the dang light. It's with me at all times.

And yes, it can be used in non tactical situations to find my lost car keys, or shine at speeding cars when you're in the X walk at night, etc.

Implying that it's a tactical instrument is NOT dangerous to anything or anybody. Implying that it ISN'T makes no one any safer.

And I wouldn't call it's ability to turn itself on in your pocket as decision making---so don't go there.

Where's my chill pills? OK, I feel better now.

Last edited by Nnobby45; September 21, 2011 at 08:25 PM.
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Old September 22, 2011, 03:57 PM   #32
anonimoose
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To those skeptics, may I ask if your opinion about flashlights changes if:

1. One were to use the strobe function? I see two benefits: a. it's a bit more disorienting for the enemy and b. it's not as easy to "track" the beam of light back to the good guy

2. One were to use a pressure switch instead of a constant on/off button? Given the (generally) accepted superiority of Crimson Trace lasergrips vs. their competitors which have the on/off at the trigger guard, I could see how something like this:



or this:



Would allow for more control/responsiveness.

very respectfully,
Moose
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Old September 22, 2011, 09:45 PM   #33
Nnobby45
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Quote:
1. One were to use the strobe function? I see two benefits: a. it's a bit more disorienting for the enemy and b. it's not as easy to "track" the beam of light back to the good guy
I have a strobe, though I don't carry it much. However, I've found that the strobe light is easy to see with---no disadvantage to the user.
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Old September 23, 2011, 10:16 PM   #34
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I carry a Surefire E2D LED. Dual output, 15/200 lumens. Tail-cap button. If I'm using it with my pistol, I use the harries technique (instead of FBI technique--which is what the salesman was talking about).

It's great for civilian use since I can illuminate people without pointing a weapon at them, and the harries technique provides decent support if I have to search and shoot.

YMMV. Get a quality LED flashlight and be done with it.
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Old October 11, 2011, 09:09 PM   #35
Dr_2_B
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Anyone else noticed that you can't get the 4, 5, or 6 C-cell maglights anymore? They were my favorite because they more resemble the diameter of a billy club than the D-cell lights.

The last 2 I had somehow blew up or melted or something. I mean the batteries inside did this.

But try to find one now. They're impossible to find.
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Old October 14, 2011, 10:54 AM   #36
graysmoke
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Those that say a Flashlight is not part of Tactical simply have no clue, or need to lay-off the cool-aid.
The hand-held or gun-mounted flashlighs are a very important tool and factor in self defence techniques.
When Needed - The LED Flashlight is used by all Law Enforcement, FBI, Secret Service, Navy Seal, Cammando Forces, etc etc etc......
They are trained with useing the LED Flashlight.

A Hi-Lumens Brightness - It's main function in extream darkness is to sudden Blind/distort the vision of an assailant.
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Old October 18, 2011, 09:58 PM   #37
AdamSean
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Checkout the video on personaldefensenetwork.com
Rob makes a ton of vital points on the use of a rail-mounted light and a handheld. I personally use a hand held Sure Fire G2. I can use the hand held by utilizing indirect focus so I can identify my target as a threat or not and have enough illumination to make a precision shot.

I have even made it a point to carry a flashlight as a part of my EDC set-up. Even in the daytime. Recently, here we have had a shooting in a movie theater. I'm sure a lot of people wish they had a flashlight then. A Streamlight Stylus Pro is small enough to clip in a pocket and bright enough for most indoor uses.
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Old June 28, 2012, 03:39 PM   #38
MW826
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Tactical light.

---I know this is an old post, but it is a popular one and there are a few things I felt led to address.---
First off, if you are against using a flash light in any circumstances, and are bent on "knowing the dark areas of the house and shooting at back-lit silhouettes." I do have some issue with that, if you are able to fully assess the situation, whether by listening to conversations or watching the intruder's actions very carefully, then you may be able to be somewhat confident in your decision. I would just hate to be the one that dispatches of his drunk neighbor who pulled into the wrong drive, and thought he was locked out. But every situation is different. Castle law may cover you legally, but that doesn't mean you're right.
Also, I agree in that I feel the question was limiting. Why not have both, it would have to be a pretty big bump in the night for me to grab my gun as a first option to check on my kids. I have multiple flashlights in my bedroom. I do have one mounted on my handgun, but would grab my surefire hand held as a first option. As long as it's powerful enough and the batteries are charged, have it all accessible.
Last of all, for the pet peeve of using tactical incorrectly, Really?? First off, tactical can be used as an adjective, second, why would you deviate from the question? Even if it was incorrect, he's looking for input on a decision, not for acceptance into grammar school. You understood what he was asking, and if not you need a lesson in communication. I guess we're now onto one of my pet peeves.
Anyway, I would agree with having many options at your disposal. I completely back the fact that spending the extra money, will be well worth it when your life or someone else's may hang on the dependability and power of your tools, whether that is a flashlight, a gun, or the locks on your door.
-Mike
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Old June 28, 2012, 04:22 PM   #39
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I think a having a hand held is more important than weapon mount.
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Old June 29, 2012, 07:43 PM   #40
Frank Ettin
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No reason to resurrect this old thread.
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