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Old June 4, 2012, 11:42 AM   #1
brushhippie
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Shot from a black powder revolver

I was out building fence the other day when a copperhead took off through the brush....five roundballs later he was still very much alive and gone, this is unexceptable so since this BP revolver is my every day carry gun and snakes are the main reason for carrying it, I decided to try loading some shot and see how it works out. I started with 20 grains of powder, double wad, shot to the top of the cylinder, wad over that and wad on top, once compressed I put a lube pill over that to keep it all in there. From 10 or 12 feet away it seems to work great, doesnt give you much of a pattern but it does put shot where it needs to be! Check out the videos and give it a try yourself, it fun and different at the very least!
http://youtu.be/19EP9ZgygHc
http://youtu.be/IKT8HDAveuI
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Old June 4, 2012, 08:01 PM   #2
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Nice job!

Damned if I didn't see a huge snake partially exposed in the ferns in my backyard today as I approached. I think it might be another water moccasin. That ****** me off as I killed one two years ago back there and he was 48" long. I used my Taurus Judge though to get him using a #4 bird shotshell in 410 gauge. Because I could only see the back 12" of the snake today I'm not 100% sure it is a moccasin but it was BIG.



I'm thinking that I prefer to use the Taurus Judge with shotshells to take out these varmits as I can't be messin' around since the water moccasin is one of the few snakes that will actually go out of his way to get ya.



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Old June 4, 2012, 08:45 PM   #3
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How many ounces of shot do you figure you are getting into that 1858 or perhaps the question is how many pellet? Any idea of the velocity?

This is what the 410 shotshells hold:



The "4 shot" Federal contains 7/16th ounces of #4 "birdshot" not #4 "buckshot". The listed muzzle velocity is 1200 fps for both of the Federal shotshells. The #4 shotshell contains 63 pellets. The 000 buck shotshell contains four 000 buck pullets.

The steel pellets of the Winchester #4 shot appears to be slightly larger than the Federal #4 shot. This particular cartridge was holding 94 pellets in it's 3" cartridge. The #7.5 shot cartridge contained 220 pellets. Both 3" Winchester cartridges contain 11/16th ounces of shot and have a listed muzzle velocity of 1135 fps.

The #4 shot appears to be more suitable for snake kills whereas the 000 buck would appear to be more useful for 2 legged animals.
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Old June 5, 2012, 07:57 AM   #4
Rifleman1776
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You put a whole lot of wadding in that pistol cylinder. Try less, much less, and see what happens.
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Old June 5, 2012, 08:21 AM   #5
brushhippie
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I put alot of wadding in because I wanted to make sure I got good compression without getting too much shot (to keep pressure down). With 10 grains of powder I was afraid the compression would be light, but I will check that out for sure...as far as how many pellets in the cylinder Im not sure but Im going to go test the sidewall question today and Ill figure out what Im ending up with as far as shot load, thanks for the comments guys!....I LOVE the testing! Clem I love the Judge those are awesome pistols Ill bet its a handful with a .45 long colt!
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Old June 5, 2012, 08:29 AM   #6
ClemBert
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Any idea of how many pellets you are able to fit in the chamber? Off the top of my head I'd probably try this....

12 grains FFFg
Thin Fiber Wad
Lubricated Felt wad
#6 Bird Shot
Thick Fiber Wad

The only question is how much #6 Bird Shot would be in there. Maybe a ROA would be better to hold more shot?

p.s. My impression is that the 3" shotshell is more of a handful than the .45 Colt cartridges. Definite noticeable difference versus the 2 1/2" shotshell.
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Old June 5, 2012, 08:36 AM   #7
brushhippie
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I will try that today and Ill let you know what I find out this afternoon!
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Old June 5, 2012, 09:48 AM   #8
Willie Sutton
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Round shot of uniform size is about 60% as dense as a solid lead slug filling the same cylinder (with free-running shot, IE "not jammed" because the balls are too big to shake into position this ratio is fixed and is not changed by changing ball size).

Thus: Your shot load can take up a "little more" depth in the chamber than a round ball does, and be of the same weight.

For snakes... smaller is likely better. Can #12 shot be bought (snake shot size for a .22)?

Clem: That's one big Moccasin! How did it fry up? ;-)


Willie

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Old June 5, 2012, 12:25 PM   #9
ClemBert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Sutton
Clem: That's one big Moccasin! How did it fry up? ;-)
Me thinks I prefer chicken.

I do feel somewhat guilty about throwing away good meat and a purty snake hide in the trash bin. I also kind of feel bad about that half dozen armadillos I chucked into the trash bin too.

What size snakes are y'all gunning for? I don't think rat shot is an appropriate load for a 4 foot moccasin but I've never tried it. I went hunting this morning for that huge snake I saw partially exposed yesterday. No luck...I tried using a grapple to comb the fern plants. All I saw was what I believe was a pigmy rattlesnake. About the size of a pencil I'd say rat shot or 7 1/2 shot would be perfect.
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Old June 5, 2012, 12:45 PM   #10
brushhippie
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Copperheads, water moccasins and timber rattlers are the most common we have here.
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Old June 5, 2012, 03:50 PM   #11
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Man, you guys are giving me the shivers!
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Old June 15, 2012, 11:40 AM   #12
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Brushhippie: I'm guessing the pattern would be too large for using on squirrel or rabbit out to say 25 yds even with a Ruger Old Army? Did you ever try less wad and more shot? You don't think you could get enough compression without that much wadding?

Lots of bones, but much like chicken. Around here it's mostly rattlesnakes... Mmmmm!!!

I'd think that #12 shot would be a bit too small for larger snakes. And I've certainly been chased a few times by moccasins.
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Old June 15, 2012, 02:23 PM   #13
brushhippie
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Im thinking that would be a bit far, it scatters shot pretty wildly. Ive got two of these .36 Remmies so one of them is going to be a revolving shot pistol, a gunsmith buddy of mine is going to cut the rifling out of the barrel and taper the muzzle to make somewhat of a choke...we THINK we might get a pattern at MAYBE 15 yards or so, Ill just half to play with the different loads and find what it likes....gonna be fun anyway!
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Old June 15, 2012, 03:01 PM   #14
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robhof

Actually the moccasin tastes a little fishey, now rattlers, pythons, and boas are some sweet eating. For some of Fl.'s new python population, I'd use buckshot as they can get quite large. Marinated in Italian dressing for a few hrs and grilled, a fit ending for an invasive species.
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Old June 16, 2012, 12:14 AM   #15
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Making A Smoothboro

I don't know about shooting shot loads out of a bbl with rifling I never tried it. I wouldn't think the range would be to far. I may give it a try just to see if it would come in handy for anything. I bought a second hand New Englander rifle in 50 cal that the first owner didn't do to good of ah job cleaning the inside of the bbl, so I bought another bbl off ebay and the rifle is like almost new now. My question, brushhippie said something about haveing a bbl made into a smoothboro shotgun bbl. I would like to take the .50 cal bbl that was rusted up on the inside and try to do the same thing to it. If I can get a gunsmith to do the work would that .50 cal bbl become something like a 20 ga or what? I know it would be safe cause the bbl it's self is thick. Any ideas guys?



Dell
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Old June 16, 2012, 04:28 AM   #16
brushhippie
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It would work fine, black powder shotguns have a relatively thin walled barrel and whatever size you end up with really doesnt matter as long as whatever you use for a shot cup and wadding fit the bore.
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Old June 20, 2012, 08:29 AM   #17
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I enjoyed your videos BrushHippie. And Clem, that is one respectable sized cotton mouth. I've ate rattlers but never ate a cotton mouth. and once I shot, skinned and cut up an armadillo and fried it up like I would a chicken. It was tough as old shoe leather and I spit it out and threw the whole nicely fried platter away. Afterwards my wife told me she read that armadillos are one of the few creatures that are a carrier for leprosy. Leprosy? That's what wifey said. Never tried eating another armadillo after that.


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Old June 21, 2012, 10:55 AM   #18
DPris
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More trouble than it's worth & it appears you're more wedded to the individual gun than the idea of a more practical tool for snakes.

Any .38/.357 revolver, including snubs, with Speer shot, would be infinitely easier to carry, easier to load, easier to reload, more efficient over all, and wouldn't require as immediate cleaning.
You could mix the loads, with all birdshot, all bullets, or half & half.

Same simple efficiency with a basic & cheap H&R single-barrel shotgun in any gauge, as opposed to converting a rifled percussion bore into a smoothbore.

I'm too lazy, I'd just take the easy way.
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Old June 21, 2012, 11:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Ive got two of these .36 Remmies so one of them is going to be a revolving shot pistol, a gunsmith buddy of mine is going to cut the rifling out of the barrel and taper the muzzle to make somewhat of a choke...we THINK we might get a pattern at MAYBE 15 yards or so
Now this is getting waaaay interesting! A dedicated revolving shot pistol. I like it!!!!

How you gonna confine it so the 6th cylinder of shot still be in there by the time you roll around to it so it won't have dislodged and/or possibly just fallen out.
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Old June 21, 2012, 11:32 AM   #20
brushhippie
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Felt wad under and over shot then lube pill on top seems to hold really well, Ive carried them for several weeks now and no problems. Talked to Kevin yesterday and he says the shot revolver project will be ready this weekend, cant wait!
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Old June 22, 2012, 08:30 PM   #21
ZVP
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Lots of small shot is best forkilling snakes.
I have used solids with some good luck also because a close miss usually stunns the snake and rolls him over, giving chance for a quick (better aimed) second killing shot,
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Old June 23, 2012, 08:01 AM   #22
Rifleman1776
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We used to have a colorful character living in our area. He would put on a 'hillbilly' act for tourists. Part of his gig was to make bets with tourists that he could shoot an asprin out of the air with his replica C&B revolver. He did every time. He used shot and loaded simply with tissue paper. It can be done.
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Old June 24, 2012, 08:01 PM   #23
deerslayer303
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Neat Thread, thanks for all the info and posts. But I must admit my first thought was "Imagine the shot you could get into a Walker cylinder" I may just have to try this out! But for your 36 cal would like a #8 or #9 shot be better? As you could get more pellets into the cylinder, just a thought
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Old June 25, 2012, 07:10 AM   #24
brushhippie
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You gotta try that with the Walker and let us know! There are lots of combinations to try as far as different shot sizes and powder loads...Ill get to em eventually!
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Old June 25, 2012, 12:02 PM   #25
enyaw
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I've used a Walker for no.9 shot and rabbits. Have to be a few feet distance. About 12 max. maybe.
To get more bird shot in a chamber use less room for powder by using Goex FFFFg or 777 FFFg and vegetable fiber wads like the Blackpowder cartdiges use. They are stiff and a little big fer cap&ball chambers so they stay put. Cabelas has them.
Cool way to set up a Walker .....get a Kirst conversion cylinder for 45 Colt.
Go one further and ream the chambers longer for 460 S&W but still use the manufacturers recommended charge for 45 Colt.....just use the longer 460 S&W case to get more birdshot in. Use a hot powder like the Goex FFFFg or 777 FFFg. Or even Pyrodex Pistol that's hotter than Goex.
I read in the Dixie Gunworks catalog years ago that if your birdshot penetrates a tin can then it's good to go fer game at the distance the shot can penetrate the can.
A Walker can be trimmed down in weight by taking off the loading lever and grinding and filling away the steel where the loading lever was fixed.Make it shaped like a Paterson barrel.
One other way is to simply get the conversion from Kirst fer a 45 Scholfield to use in the 1860 Army. Use the conversion cylinder and the commercial birdshot cups by Speer to load some shot. Using smokeless powder the 45 Scholfield and the Speer plastic shotcups would work well.
The rifling can be removed from a barrel and the muzzle swagged down fer a choke.
A gunsmith or anyone can make a block of steel with a hole drilled in it that would slip tight on the muzzle end of the barrel. Cut the blockin half thru the center of the hole. That removes enough steel so when the two halves are put around the muzzle and clamped in a vice the muzzle is swagged smaller for a choke. The steelblock drilled and split would need to be a carbon steel that can be hardened. Take into account the barrel is probably tapered and the "51" is octagon....so the muzzle end would need be turned round.
The front sight would have to be removed to swag but....a shotgun bead could be put backon easy enough. Weld the slot where the blade was and file it then drill and tap fer a shotgun bead. Small brass one.
That Hoof Hearted or the venerable Raven (Gunsmiths) over at CASS Forum would do the rifling remove and the choke fer someone ifin you told them how you wanted it done.
I'd do it but.....I'm gettin too tired and old. han ha ha ha Too many irons in my fire right now.
Personally I'd go the easier route and get the conversion cylinder for the 1860 Army or even the 1851 Navy since reloading with the 45 or 38 Speer shotcups is easy and smokeless powder leaves room fer shot. With the Speer shot cups in the brass their may still be enough room fer black powder or a sub if the hot FFFFg Goex or the hot 777 FFFg is used.
Personally I'd like to use smokeless powder to shoot shot even though I've used the black fer that. I'd use smokeless Red Dot in the brass and the conversion cylinder since Red Dot is a shotgun poder and......with the conversion cylinders and the bird shot the revolvers would be revolving shotguns. Colt did make revolving shotguns backin the day. ha ha ha ha
Anywhooooo.......the longer the barrel the better with the blackpowder but.....using the conversion cylinders and the brass and the Speer shotcups and smokeless the guns can be "snubbiized fer carrying in a pocket.
I've lopped the heads offa snakes with the little CCI 22cal shot ammo shot from my Ruger Single six with the 9 inch barrel. The 45 Colt CCI Ammo with the shot is pretty danged plenty fer snakes.

Last edited by enyaw; June 27, 2012 at 07:21 AM.
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