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Old December 9, 2008, 10:14 PM   #76
Deaf Smith
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Sarge,

How is the scope holding out on the Ruger. Do they have a buffer or anything to take the pounding out (I once broke a scope on a Mini-14. Shattered the lenses from the bolt pounding the back of the receiver.)

Hey, I don't expect any Mini to match a HBAR AR. But I might try and see if my Bushie M4, with it's scope, can do at 200 using the same shooting technique you used. The M4 style is much lighter than the HBAR.

And Sarge, how is the trigger pull? There was a guy, I forgot who, and he could put a real nice 3 lb trigger on a Mini. You might like that alot. Mike Kfong I think his name was.
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Old December 9, 2008, 10:36 PM   #77
Sarge
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Hey Deaf,

I took the scope off right after the article, 'cause the rifle goes along on bank alarms and such. Mini's do slam-bang quite a bit as is evident from shooting one alongside an AR- you can feel the difference. Mini's do lose brass but I've not had to cull any casings I did find. Some had a dent but it ironed out in processing, or was inconsequential. This Mini feeds anything including my reloads.

From the original write-up:

Quote:
The trigger is typical Mini meaning it is two-stage, like bolt-action military rifles of the 19th and 20th centuries. My RCBS Premium Trigger Pull Scale indicates that three pounds of force is required to overcome the first stage; five and one half pounds gets you through the second stage and fires the rifle.

As is common with these rifles, that second stage has some creep. This is due to hammer/sear engagement angles which actually cam the hammer backward a few thousandths, during the final press. If you pull the slack out of a stock Mini's trigger and then release it, the hammer will snap right back into full sear engagement. Leave it to Bill Ruger to design a lawyer-proof trigger. Of course there's a trade-off for everything and until you master it, the Mini's trigger can make precision shooting a real challenge.

I'm not gonna tweak this Mini much, as it's a duty gun. Might clean up the second stage a tad. I'm also not gonna sink a lot of money into it. It'll serve pretty much as is or I'll sell it and put the money towards something else.

Like a 94 Winchester... fact is, I've logged more patrol miles with 94 on board than with all the others combined.
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Old December 10, 2008, 12:47 PM   #78
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I didn't read the whole thread.
Apparently I'm Three Steps Behind.
AR-15 without hesitation.
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Old December 10, 2008, 09:03 PM   #79
vox rationis
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I'm not sure about the new and improved Mini's but I sold my original standard Mini. The brass ejected right into a very poorly constructed fixed rear sight fixed unit (I know that the new ones supposedly have an improved rear sight), I couldn't zero it properly as it shot way low, I actually had to have a smith take some off the top of the front sight, and also blade it to make it a bit thinner as it was way thick, and the thin barrel made for bad accuracy when the barrel got hot.

A properly put together AR (Colt, Noveske, LMT, etc) should be superior to a Mini 14 in essentially every way, especially when it comes to ergonomics, shootability, and accuracy.
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Old November 26, 2009, 07:55 PM   #80
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roger that

i recently bought a ruger mini 14 target ranch rifle and it is incredible. if you are looking for a top of the line machine that loves throwing lead around this should be your choice. besides ARs are a dime a dozen and they are cheesey everyone just wants one so they can pretend to play army. i say just give it a try and if you don't love the ruger target ranch mini 14 you can easily trade it in for an AR because the AR's are so cheap. the only reason the government issues them is because they are so cheap not because they worked. well i hated mine the whole time i had to carry that thing. the mini 14's have come a long way since the ww2 era that these guys are talking about
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Old November 26, 2009, 09:52 PM   #81
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Wow. Old thread resurrected, but since Deaf asked about my 580's trigger...I have since cleaned it up using this video from Great West Gunsmithing as a guide. Before going any further, I'll re-state their warning:

Quote:
This video is for informational purposes only, and I can not responsible for any damage that you may cause to yourself, your firearm or unintended targets. Trigger work should only be attempted by people who thoroughly understand the design and function of the parts involved, and have the tools and skills to perform the modifications. Improperly assembled or modified triggers can be dangerous and/or illegal.
The video is lengthy but excellent and the finished product is a big improvement. PAY close attention to the caveats regarding the secondary sear. '580' now wears a trigger reminiscent of a real decent Garand or M1A trigger- far ahead of the factory 'three and a half stage' trigger and just a trigger stop away from perfect. That is 'in the works' and this Mini isn't going anywhere.
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Old November 26, 2009, 11:48 PM   #82
geetarman
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JW8301,

You might want to rethink the rant on the AR style rifle. The rifles produced today from DPMS, Bushmaster as well as many others will put a Mini14 to shame.

I have both and there is NO comparison.
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Old December 10, 2009, 12:36 AM   #83
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probably choosing a mini-14 . . .

I'm a life long liberal turned hunter after facing the reality of being a steward of some western ranching land. While I was previously a proponent of leaving all wildlife to take care of itself, I've come to see that in this day and age people are part of the necessary mechanism for habitat and animal population control. Last year, wanting to reduce the local elk population and put meat on my table without relying on the slaughterhouse economy, I took my first (bull 5 x 5) elk. It was an incredible experience.

Given the damage to the environment and habitat for other animals--including fish and riparian birdlife--caused by an exploding beaver population on the ranch I help manage, I've decided to become personally involved in controlling the beaver population.

Colorado only allows live trapping and relocation of beavers by way of permit, and not after September. I've decided, therefore, to hunt them this winter/spring. A local expert has convinced me that the use of a 12 gauge is more likely to injure, but not kill the animal, and he has recommended that I use a semi-automatic .223. (His personal favorite being a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch model).

I've read this thread with interest in trying to choose between the Mini-14 and an AR 15. Seems to me that around the ranch the Mini-14 makes the most sense. Anyway, I'm probably going to be doing my shooting from within 100 yards, so the new 580 series will probably meet my needs.

If anyone has any better ideas I'd appreciate hearing them since I'm about to shell out around $700 for the rifle and several hundred more for some quality optics.

Thanks for your assistance.
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Old December 10, 2009, 08:46 AM   #84
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Ruger Mini 14 Ranch Rifle vs AR 15

Back in my military days, I had extensive experience with the M-16a1, so I know the AR is a good platform. That said, I purchased a Ranch Rifle two months ago and it's my only 223/5.56. Call me old fashioned; I like wood and blued steel. The new 580 series seems to have addressed the concerns with accuracy, but I doubt it matches the AR in that regard. But I have no regrets. With a Burris 2-7x26 scope mounted, I've been able to consistently hit out to 400 yards, and that's good enough for my purposes.
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Old December 28, 2009, 05:53 PM   #85
mwmjones
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AR's are more accurate

AR's are more accurate
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Old December 28, 2009, 06:42 PM   #86
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Blanket generalizations are always true.
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Old December 28, 2009, 07:56 PM   #87
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That's the funniest thing I've heard in a month.
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Old December 28, 2009, 09:54 PM   #88
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i dont like AR's so guess which one i like waaaaaaayy better? yep the ruger.. it may not be as accurate but when you are breaking down the AR to clean so it will shoot the ruger will still be blazing away.. it's true
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Old December 29, 2009, 03:20 AM   #89
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AR15's rock.
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Old December 29, 2009, 09:30 AM   #90
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My experience....

I have and shoot two different ARs and two mini-14s and two mini-30s....

One of my ARs is slightly better than any of the other minis, then again one of the mini14s is the most inaccurate rifle I own (and I've got close to 1200 invested in it)... From what I've heard, a new from the factory Ruger mini-14 ranch will probably out shoot the standard from the factory AR15 inside of 200 yards. The mini will probably require good domestic ammo to shoot well.

I think I'll take all 6 out in the next week or so and see... All with Iron sights and I'll do 50 yards since I don't like to have to walk down range that far. Key will be ... the same ammo in all three... maybe something like 62 grain fmj.
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Old December 29, 2009, 11:00 AM   #91
Art Eatman
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For reliability in hitting a target with the first shot, the Mini is as good as anything else you can buy. That's from my own experience on coyotes and jackrabbits and with four different Minis I've owned through the years.

A three-shot group of around 1.5 MOA is very easily made. Sure, after that the groups open up, but for a hunting rifle that's meaningless.

If your deal is for tight groups at the benchrest, don't get a Mini.
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Old December 29, 2009, 11:07 AM   #92
Brenten
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Get the mini-14. Different than all the AR crowd and more reliable on the average. I have owned my mini since early 90's and in that time it has been the most reliable 5.56 gun I own. Way better than all my colt M4's, and bushmasters I have had. Not as accurate but more so than an AK and no one seems to complain about the AK's accuracy.
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Old December 29, 2009, 01:11 PM   #93
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I am definately NOT an expert on the ar-15, I own a colt HBAR. The mini however I have a bunch of. I have stock mini's with cosmetic mods such as rails, optics, stocks, duracoat-nothing to increase the guns capability except the optic. I purchased the HBAR and a mini target model (better trigger, nice stock, heavy barrel, and an adjustable harmonic balancer similar to the browning BOSS system) the target mini for about $800 holds its own with the HBAR, ruger is much more durable, action is exposed and jams are much easier to clear (the gun has never jammed on me) the garand action just flings dirt snow mud or whatever away from the bolt as it cycles. The HBAR has much more products available for it mainly because I have a quad rail for it. I have another mini with a m4 buttstock that folds and a socom16 type rail system- this gun has every feature the AR has (lights,optics,lasers,forward grip,etc) we all know the pros and cons or piston (mini) or direct(ar). The aforementioned mini has an adjustable gas block, bedding, stock barrel, recoil buffer, harmonic stabilizer, muzzle brake that allows me to watch the target while punching holes in it, barrel is cut to 14.5"+1.5" brake (in my experience with factory mini barrels the shorter the less barrel vibration and tighter groups) this cost about $400+$mini (2008 model with the slightly heavier barrel) and it will outshoot my colt all day. I forgot to mention you can switch uppers on ar's but for the same price you can do what I do and buy another mini. I also have full custom 20", 1" diameter barrel mini with all the bells and whistles. This cost me $799 plus the cost of the rifle (I sent my gunsmith a used $300 mini cause every part gets replaced with aftermarket). This rifle shoulders better, shoots better, has NEVER jammed, comes with .75MOA garuntee out of the box, amazing trigger pull, same recoil as a .22lr (none) so if u get the target model or sink a couple bucks in you can definately have a mini that will shoot just as accurate if not more and be much more reliable. I'm not knocking AR's im just getting into them and love everything about them. If you want info on some cheap ways to make a mini shoot tight groups shoot me a message
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Old June 21, 2012, 09:55 AM   #94
wadecarlson
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gas piston vs direct impingement

This is not which is better between an ar15 and a mini14. These guns are literally identical in combat situations. The arguments should be gas piston vs direct impingement. An AR15 with direct impingement is not a good choice for anything. The mini14 is run like a gas piston and is more reliable than a direct impingement AR15. An AR15 like a LWRC or an HK416 is a gas piston setup and will be just as reliable as a mini14 with a slight advantage in accuracy. The amount of bullcrap on this thread is hard to stomach.
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Old June 21, 2012, 10:51 AM   #95
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Quote:
This is not which is better between an ar15 and a mini14. These guns are literally identical in combat situations. The arguments should be gas piston vs direct impingement. An AR15 with direct impingement is not a good choice for anything. The mini14 is run like a gas piston and is more reliable than a direct impingement AR15. An AR15 like a LWRC or an HK416 is a gas piston setup and will be just as reliable as a mini14 with a slight advantage in accuracy. The amount of bullcrap on this thread is hard to stomach.
Including your post.

As an owner of both a DI and good piston AR (Barrett REC7) there is virtually no difference in performance or reliability between the different types of operating designs.

Unless you plan on swimming underwater with the rifle where the gas tube on a DI can fill with water - there's NO difference in reliability. The bolt / receiver on a piston needs less cleaning, but unless you can cite real data sources or personal experiences your "information" is merely another opinion.

I owned an AR15 in 1982 - and that was an unreliable rifle that would jam at least once or twice on every 30 round magazine. The M4 modifications to the AR have cured those problems which were, for the most part, feed ramp related. That's why ARs today have "M4 style" feed ramps.
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Old June 21, 2012, 10:57 AM   #96
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AR vs Mini,

These rifles are different from each other.

Similarities;

1. You can hang a big ol magazine under them.
2. They shoot bullets.
3. You can put a sling on them.

That's about it.
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Old June 21, 2012, 11:06 AM   #97
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Quote:
AR vs Mini,

These rifles are different from each other.
Yes. My AR .223 is < 1 MOA accurate. I use it to shoot to 400 meters. My .308 AR is <1/2 MOA accurate. I use it to shoot to 780 meters - the longest target at the steel target rifle range that I use.

The Mini-14 (at least mine) is sort of accurate up to 100 meters - past that, ....no.


Quote:
Similarities;

1. You can hang a big ol magazine under them.
2. They shoot bullets.
3. You can put a sling on them.

That's about it.
Yep.....
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Old June 21, 2012, 12:31 PM   #98
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This may be bordering on minutiae.

I have been doing much of a similar "vs" scenario in my head on and the ultranet.

So here's my latest concern. Think "firing pin" for this example.

I like the gas piston mini...but if it breaks, I'm out of luck unless I can get it back to Ruger.

If an AR breaks, I can most likely fix it myself with some on hand parts.

So then I say, AK47, but I don't know about the quality of a lot of parts guns.

So I am still up in the air on this. Yes I know folks, just buy one of each or get one and don't worry about it. Oh, if I had that money or a mind that worked like that.
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Old June 21, 2012, 09:52 PM   #99
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Very little profit in picking fly-poop out of pepper. Minis are Minis and ARs are ARs. Worrying about the differences is a waste of time--particularly after all these years--and threads and threads and threads.
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