HS-6 9mm & 45acp

[CS86]

I was wondering what others thoughts were on HS-6 powder. This was the first pistol powder I bought for the 9mm. I ended up getting a .45ACP and actually shot my .45 test rounds before the 9mm.

When shooting the .45 5" barrel the HS-6 powder seemed so dirty, but when shooting some other factory powder, the 45 in general seems to leave black soot everywhere. Is there a cleaner burning powder that others prefer? I was shooting lower loads and I wasn't sure if this was a factor.

When shooting the 9mm 4.5" barrel working from lower loads to higher loads, HS-6 burned really clean. It almost looked like a light yellowish looking soot. I had shot more out of the 9 than the .45, and the 9 didn't dirty at all.

Just wondering if others had the same experience and what would work better for a cleaner burning powder for the .45.

Thanks for reading and any replies

[Jim Watson]

What .45 load level will you want? Hardball, +P, midrange-powderpuff, IPSC Major power factor?

I have loaded a lot of Major and hardball with Win 231 and think it clean enough. But it gets erratic down in the midrange and is too fast for +P.

For low end loads running from midrange to just barely Major, Clays works well, as does Solo 1000.

Vihtavouri N310 or N320 is very fine for light to medium loads but is more expensive than other brands.

Frankly, I am now loading sooty old Bullseye in midrange now. It does very well and I just clean the gun every once in a while.

There are others, but these are the ones I have used.

[Unclenick]

Jim hit the main point. HS-6 is a slow powder in .45 that is most suitable for +P loads. In general, the slower a powder burns, the higher the peak pressure it needs to burn cleanly and uniformly. As a result, slow powders are usually a poor choice for any but near-maximum pressure loads, both from the standpoint of fouling and accuracy.

A few years ago I switched to Hodgdon Universal Clays as a cleaner burning powder than Unique or Bullseye. I meters better than Bullseye (which is easier to meter well than Unique) but not as well as 231/HP38 (same powder, different brand labels) or other spherical propellants. But that hasn't proven to be an issue for accuracy. Something cleaner, still, is Hodgdon Clays, but you can't use as much safely, so it is pretty strictly for light target loads.

[CherokeeT]

I use HS6 for 9mm, really good for high end loads. For 45 ACP, I use 231 mostly. WST also works great for light loads. I have used HS6 for high end Jacketed 45 ACP with good results.

[tahoe2]

I use HS-6 for 9mm and light .41 mag target loads(10.5 grns w/215 swc @1050fps)

[10 Spot Terminator]

Just tried HS6 in a S&W K14 .38 spl. after reading several posts on this powder where all who loved this powder agreed you needed magnum primers and top end loads teetering on +p pressures for awesome performance. They were right. Was indeed sooty but the best performance I have come accross to date for my .38 spl. Curious if magnum primers might not be the key in the 9mm and .45 auto loads as well ???

10 Spot

[mmb713]

I've used N320 in 45 ACP for a lot of years and it is an excellent and clean powder. Lately I've started using Universal as I'm about out of N320 and I think it's actually cleaner than N320. It is also cheaper and readily available.

[CherokeeT]

Regarding my experience with HS6 in 9mm and 45 ACP: I use standard primers and have no soot problems, powder burns nicely. These are near top end loads. It also works fine in 357 Mag loads, somewhat above mid-range load level. I use 231 for 38 Special.

[CS86]

Thanks for the posts. I think i'll try the HS-6 again since I still have some and try it towards the upper end and see if that burns a little cleaner. For the .45I thought the mid range load according to Hornady (9.5gr) was a little more accurate than the low end I tried (9.0gr).

I'm using the 185gr XTP Hornady bullets for these rounds. If I remember right there was a big difference, for powder charges, between the Nosler and Hornady book for the top end loads for the 185gr bullets. It makes me wonder how high to go, and still be safe. Hornady always seems to stay on the lower side compared to other books. Or do there bullets just not handle the higher charges well?

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by 10 Spot Terminator

. . . Curious if magnum primers might not be the key in the 9mm and .45 auto loads as well ???

I can tell you that's definitely not the case. Magnum primers make more gas than standard primers, so they pressurize cases more. In short cartridge cases, like the 9 mm and .45 Auto, there is only a small space for powder under the bullet, and in that small space, the extra primer gas tends to unseat the bullet before the powder burn gets going well. That results in erratic velocities and varying barrel times.

[CS86]

Are there instances where magnums make more sense or a practice that people tend to use magnum primers for? I've never used them and I don't have any guns that require them. I'd be interested in learning if there was a common reason for using them, other than higher velocities.

[Unclenick]

The magnum primer's higher pressure starts the powder burning faster so it peaks before the bullet has moved quite as far down the tube, so it peaks in a smaller volume. That means the peak pressure is higher. That's why velocity increases; increased pressure. There is no free lunch there.

As I mentioned, magnum primers make more gas. Some also have aluminum or other spark increasing additives. Some get to the greater gas quantity by just using more of the same priming mix as is used in standard primers, while others rebalance the mix to have more fuel but no additional sensitizer, making for a less violent, but greater gas-producing and longer flame duration primer. It's quite a mish-mash of stuff going on, and the primers can in this way be tuned to perform certain ways.

The general reasons for using them are in three situations:

1. You have a large capacity (e.g., magnum) case, so you need extra gas to reach a usable start pressure.

2. You have an average capacity case, but the powder charge doesn't fill it well. Without any powder in a portion of the case, you can have as much empty space as a well-filled magnum case does, so you need the extra gas for the same reason as in 1. Magnum primers can give you better velocity consistency in a partially filled case. .30-06 loads for the M1 Garand often are not very well filled with powder because you have to use medium burn rate powders with that weapon's gas system, and the case capacity is really greater than that calls for (a reason the 7.62/.308 was developed).

3. You have a powder that is hard to ignite. Typically these are spherical propellants; particularly those developed before (very roughly) 1990. These powders have smaller spaces for the flame front to spread inbetween and have higher deterrent concentrations at their surfaces than deterred stick powders typically do. Some of the more modern ones, like the Ramshot line or the newer Hodgdon and Alliant powders, seem to do better. In 1989, CCI altered their magnum primer mix specifically for spherical propellant ignition, but other magnum primers have been updated, too, so this is no longer their sole purview.

Some folks also recommend magnum primers be used in cold conditions. Military primers are magnum level for that reason, but their ammo also has to be able to function in airplanes at high altitudes in winter, or in conflicts in arctic or antarctic conditions. That's colder than you find in most places or than most of us will hunt in. Denton Bramwell did some tests that found no cold weather advantage to magnum primers (really, no failure of standard primers to work well) in cold conditions that are practical to expect. My advice is to try it for yourself to see on that one.

Places not to use magnum primers:

1. In loads you have not first backed down at least 5% and worked back up to with the new primer, but you should do that whenever switching primers anyway, as some brands are more different than you'd expect.

2. In small capacity cases for the reason of unseating the bullet as described in my last post. In addition to short handgun cases, the .22 Hornet is famously plagued by this problem and only the mildest possible primers do best in it.

[CS86]

Thanks for the explanation Unclenick.