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Old June 14, 2012, 06:41 AM   #1
TNT
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.45acp brass problems

I have been reloading .45acp for a month now. And I got some cases that when I go to seat the bullet in the end I can move the bullet up and down with my fingers. Some are RP and some are Winchester and some are Federal. So there is no set pattern of a particular manufacturer for brass. I tried to crimp it more but I get the same mixed results. (Some of the bad cases would come out of it but a few remained the same) Now some of the bad brass I noticed when I used the caliper on them the walls were thinner than the rest. I have ran over 1200 round nose lead bullets and out of that batch I have probably 50rds or more that will not hold the bullet in place. The bullets are .452s So I was just curious if anyone had the same problem. Is it some thing I am doing wrong or is it that the cases that are the problem or both. And can it be corrected?

Currently set up I am using
230gr lead round nose bullets .452 diameter
brass is of all makes Win, Fed RP and then some
dies are Herter's
press is a Dillon 550b
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Old June 14, 2012, 06:43 AM   #2
buck460XVR
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Sounds like you are belling the mouths too much and losing neck tension.
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Old June 14, 2012, 06:45 AM   #3
flightline
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I'd also take a close look at your sizing die. Have you measured the OD of the case mouth after sizing?
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Old June 14, 2012, 07:09 AM   #4
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After you have ruled out the dies as the problem, take one of the offending cases and anneal it and try it again. If it has sufficient bullet tension now, then your problem is that the cases have been fired and resized so many times that they have become work-hardened and are springing-back after they come out of the sizing die.
However, if you have only been handloading a month and the dies are new, I suspect they are out of spec.
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Old June 14, 2012, 02:56 PM   #5
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Check that your sizing die is far enough down. I have the hornady LNL AP when I first started loading 9mm, I thought the die was all the way down, but it wasn't. I ended up with the same problem. I ended up pulling the bullets and resizing. I was scared that if the bullet was forced into the casing further from driving up the feed ramp of the gun, that it would cause excessive pressure.
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Old June 15, 2012, 05:57 PM   #6
Old 454
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I had the same problem with .40 S&W. I made the bell on the case a little smaller and added a Lee FCD and put just enough crimp on them so I could not push the bullet into the case. all worked out well.
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Old June 15, 2012, 07:46 PM   #7
drail
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Measure the dia. of your expander die plug. Measure a bullet. If the plug is not 3 or 4 thous. smaller than the bullet then it is overexpanding your case. This has nothing to do with flare. If your plug is oversized for your bullet then chuck it in a drill and turn it down til it is under bullet dia. You should be able to seat a bullet with no crimp and not be able to push it into the case by pressing it against the edge of the bench no matter how hard you push.
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Old June 15, 2012, 08:07 PM   #8
Edward429451
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I think drail nailed it. Since it was with different brands of brass it stands to reason that your problem is in your dies. Measuring your expander plug will tell you right away if its out of spec.
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Old June 15, 2012, 08:22 PM   #9
243winxb
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Some Remington brass will not give the bullets enough neck tension.
Thin walls. Check your expander diameter, mine are .450"
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Old June 16, 2012, 05:37 AM   #10
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1911 bullets should be .451" dia. . Are the 452s you are using for a .45 Colt and the cannelure is too deep ? Or maybe you need to downsize your expander button ?
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Old June 16, 2012, 07:49 AM   #11
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I've personally never seen a .45ACP become so work hardened that it was unreloadable. Doesn't happen. Annealing these cases is probably not going to help.

Herter's Dies. Wow. Those are old timers. Do you have instructions for them? Your problem has to do with your sizing die not sizing sufficiently and/or your expander die expanding/belling too much. Make sure your sizer is adjusted so that the die touches the top of the shell holder when the shell holder is brought up to the top of the press stroke. Then lower and set the die 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn lower. Screw the expander die into the press until it just touches the shell holder when the shell holder is at the top of the press stroke. The case mouth should be belled just barely enough to accept the the bullet base, no more. Seat and crimp your bulet just enough to remove the bell. No crimp actually needed. OD of the case mouth of a finished round should be about .468"-.470".

Correct bullet diameter for .45ACP is .451" for jacketed and .452" for lead, cast or swaged.

So you just need to fiddle with your dies and get them set right. All else is OK. It is also possible that those old dies are in fact out of spec. Measure and see.
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Old June 16, 2012, 09:53 AM   #12
TNT
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next week I will be ordering some new carbide dies, but I am did back the expander out just a bit, and it seems to help. The one case that never seemed to hold the bullet in place now does. I will do some more experimenting later on today with it. The dies I got from my dad and they may be time to retire them, parts are almost impossible to find. So I was just working with what I had. Every caliber seems to have a learning curve. But I never thought that the case was getting work hardened due to the chamber pressures are just high enough to do so. But the thinning of the material I thought might be a possibility. Possibly from the factory I dont know but thanks guys for the info moxie I will give it a try on the slight bell as well as new dies for the immediate future. I will keep you all posted on what happens
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Old June 16, 2012, 12:18 PM   #13
moxie
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Yeah, put those Herters up on the curio shelf and get a set like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/247...-45-acp-45-gap
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Old June 17, 2012, 07:29 AM   #14
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and I have the scrap barrel for proof

Quote:
I've personally never seen a .45ACP become so work hardened that it was unreloadable. Doesn't happen....
Does, too.

When someone reports bullet setback woes I offer three solutions:

--confirm bullet OD and case sizer ID and case expander OD; use good tools (hint: a dial caliper ain't)
--cannelure your cleaned sized cases
--size your fired cases using a LEE 'U' undersized sizing die (I do mostly this).





On a personal note, when I have or have not 'seen it happen', I do not automatically presume it can or cannot happen for someone else, ay?
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Old June 17, 2012, 10:41 AM   #15
Eric M.
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I'd shelve the Herters dies, and do what Moxie said.
Your troubles should be over then.

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Old June 17, 2012, 10:59 AM   #16
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Sort the brass by headstamp and try again. I think you'll find a difference by manufacturer...
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Old June 18, 2012, 02:17 AM   #17
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I have had R-P cases that were to thin to hold a bullet. This is not a total condemnation of R-P brass as mostly the remington brass is fine. I keep a bullet on my bench and I check the brass after I size them. If the bullet is loose I scrap the case as I have never been able to fix the case.
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