This will be my .460 Rowland test platform

[Dan-O]

Nice!! I called Clark's today and they said, "we don't work on Glocks".

If that reamer works for you, I may be sending you a PM to see if you'd be willing to do mine and pay a portion of the cost of the reamer.

[vaquero aleman]

Have you checked out Johnny Rowland's website? He's got a lot of good stuff there:

http://460rowland.com/


I have to be honest, the only reason I went the route I did is because I started off with a different project and it just ended up where it is now. I originally ordered a custom graphic 45TH from LWD just for 45 Super. And I let the power of .460 Rowland go to my head.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have just bought one of Johnny Rowland's kits. Probably would have spent a lot less money.

[vaquero aleman]

I ran a very conservative trial, only 14 rounds, Georgia Arms is in thier "out of components" mode with the .460 Rowland right now so I didn't want to leave myself short on ammo. Of course, Johnny Rowland claims that a person can shoot 45 Super or 45 ACP out of his .460 barrels, but I just don't know if I want to do that. There is a 1/16" gap between the mouth of the case and the throat of the chamber, if you load 45 ACP into a .460 Rowland barrel and the extractor is left holding the cartridge in place.

The Georgia Arms 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps shot very well out of the LWD barrel(reamed out by myself, a "non-gunsmith"). I really need the time and ammo to make a good assessment, but I can say that I am no longer worried about how it will work. It works great. This round will definately get your attention. I couldn't believe the size of the holes that it made in the paper.

I did have several FTF's so when I got back home I immediately changed the 24# out for the 22#. I am hoping that the reduced weight spring will stop the FTF's but I have to shoot it to know for sure. The FTF's occured with and without the comp installed, so I am assuming that the 24# spring was too much for the slightly weaker Ga Arms ammo. And I had to go ahead and threadlock the comp(I am not going to tighten down the set screws, as the comp is made of aluminum) because the .460, on the first shot, loosened the threads enough to spin the comp and it was pretty tight when I screwed it on.



It was not as violent as I was expecting, so I guess the comp is a help. Again, much more shooting needs to be done. But, you definately know that you got a hot round and I imagine that the 24# spring dampened the slide more than I am allowing for it. With this round you definately want to be paying attention each time that you fire. I can't quite figure it out, but even though the .460 is much more potent than the 10mm, it just didn't feel like the "smack you in the hand snappiness" that I experienced with the G20 that I had. Of course, I left the factory stock spring in the G20 which probably accounts for most of the slide smacking.

***The modification that I performed on the extractor worked very well also. I removed the depressor plunger spring, cut about one and a half curls out of the spring(about the thickness of the bearing head) and re-installed everything. The brass landed exactly where it should, out to the right. Hallelujah!

[Hunter Customs]

I think Vaquero Aleman posted some pics of .460 loads in his G21 mag. Also, why would Johny Rowland sell G21 kits if .460 rounds didn't fit into mags?

Dan-O,
I think you missed my point about setting the 460 Rowland up in a revolver if you want maximum performance from the 460 Rowland round.

I did not say the 460 Rowland round will not fit in a semi auto mag.
However for the 460 Rowland to work in a semi auto pistol the OAL of the loaded round has to be shorter so the rounds will fit in the mag.
To make the OAL of the round shorter the bullet has to be set deeper in the case, causing the loss of powder capacity in the case.

The 460 Rowland loaded for a revolver can take full advantage of the longer case allowing for a larger powder charge to be used.
It's the same principle that was used when devloping the 357 and 44 magnum pistol cartridges.

Here's some general information for those that may be considering shooting shorter case ammo such as 45 acp in chambers that's designed for longer case ammo such as the 460 Rowland.
To do so means you are head spacing the cartridge off of the extractor claw instead of the mouth of the case as it was designed to do.
In time this will damage the extractor claw.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[Dan-O]

That's weird, the C.O.L. of the following loads are all pretty similar, regardless of bullet weight:

Got the info here:

http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm



Bullet Type Bullet
Weight Bullet
Diameter C.O.L. Net Water
Capacity Powder
Type Charge Primer
Type Muzzle
Velocity Muzzle
Energy Group
Size
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.245" 18.0 Pwr Pistol 13.0 Fed 150 1474 893 1.1
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.245" 18.0 Pwr Pistol 13.4 Fed 150 1505 931 1.0
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.245" 18.0 AA #7 15.7 Fed 150 1386 789 1.1
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.245" 18.0 AA #7 16.0 Fed 150 1423 832 1.2
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.240" 17.9 Long Shot 13.0 Fed 150 1421 830 1.2
Remington GS 185 .451" 1.240" 17.9 Long Shot 13.5 Fed 150 1481 901 1.4
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.0 Pwr Pistol 12.8 Fed 150 1489 911 0.8
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.0 Pwr Pistol 13.0 Fed 150 1519 948 0.9
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.0 AA #7 15.2 Fed 150 1392 796 1.3
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.0 AA #7 15.4 Fed 150 1422 831 1.0
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.250" 17.2 Long Shot 12.9 Fed 150 1430 840 1.0
Remington JHP 185 .451" 1.250" 17.2 Long Shot 13.4 Fed 150 1469 887 1.2
Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Pwr Pistol 12.9 Fed 150 1474 893 1.5
Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Pwr Pistol 13.2 Fed 150 1521 951 1.2
Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.8 AA #7 15.4 Fed 150 1407 813 0.9
Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.8 AA #7 15.8 Fed 150 1472 890 0.8
Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.250" 17.8 Long Shot 13.0 Fed 150 1430 840 1.3
Sierra JHP 185 .451 1.250" 17.8 Long Shot 13.5 Fed 150 1489 911 0.9
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 Pwr Pistol 13.1 Fed 150 1472 890 1.4
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 Pwr Pistol 13.4 Fed 150 1517 946 0.8
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 AA #7 15.7 Fed 150 1492 915 1.2
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 AA #7 16.1 Fed 150 1510 937 1.2
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 Long Shot 13.0 Fed 150 1422 831 1.3
Speer GD 185 .451" 1.240" 18.0 Long Shot 13.5 Fed 150 1460 876 1.3
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 Pwr Pistol 12.4 Fed 150 1428 906 1.1
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 Pwr Pistol 12.8 Fed 150 1450 934 1.1
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 AA #7 14.9 Fed 150 1383 850 0.9
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 AA #7 15.3 Fed 150 1437 917 1.4
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 Long Shot 13.0 Fed 150 1350 810 1.2
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 Long Shot 13.4 Fed 150 1419 894 1.2
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 True Blue 12.3 Fed 150 1415 889 1.5
Speer JHP 200 .451" 1.245" 17.4 True Blue 12.6 Fed 150 1454 939 1.3
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 Pwr Pistol 12.2 Fed 150 1438 919 1.4
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 Pwr Pistol 12.6 Fed 150 1472 973 0.8
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 AA #7 14.6 Fed 150 1343 801 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 AA #7 15.0 Fed 150 1392 861 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 Long Shot 13.0 Fed 150 1346 805 1.2
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 Long Shot 13.5 Fed 150 1483 977 1.1
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 True Blue 12.0 Fed 150 1409 882 1.4
Hornady HP/XTP 200 .451" 1.250" 16.9 True Blue 12.3 Fed 150 1437 917 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Pwr Pistol 12.1 Fed 150 1279 836 1.3
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Pwr Pistol 12.5 Fed 150 1332 906 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 AA #7 14.6 Fed 150 1260 811 1.2
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 AA #7 15.0 Fed 150 1333 908 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Long Shot 10.0 Fed 150 1214 753 0.9
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Long Shot 12.0 Fed 150 1332 906 1.0
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 True Blue 10.2 Fed 150 1261 812 1.3
Hornady HP/XTP 230 .451" 1.245" 17.8 True Blue 10.5 Fed 150 1300 863 0.9
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 Pwr Pistol 9.1 Fed 150 1129 736 1.4
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 Pwr Pistol 9.4 Fed 150 1142 753 1.3
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 AA #7 10.9 Fed 150 1002 580 1.5
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 AA #7 11.1 Fed 150 1077 670 1.4
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 True Blue 8.9 Fed 150 1095 692 1.1
Speer JHP 260 .451" 1.250" 12.2 True Blue 9.2 Fed 150 1148 761 1.4

[vaquero aleman]

There is some good information here:

http://460rowland.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.460_Rowland

[Hunter Customs]

Sierra JHP 185 .451" 1.245" 17.8 Pwr Pistol 13.2 Fed 150 1521 951 1.2

I believe the above load with a 1521 MV is the hottest 185 gr bullet load you have listed, the OAL is designed for semi auto.
In a revolver with a longer OAL 185 gr bullets can easily be pushed past 1800 MV.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[Mike Irwin]

If we want to drop into a discussion about a 460ton Rowland revolver, please start a new thread in the revolver forum a.d leave this thread forthe semiautomatic project, please.

[vaquero aleman]

Now that I have had time to mull over my .460 shooting experience with my 21, I have come to a different conclusion. I believe that my FTF's were not caused by the recoil spring being too stiff but by the increased velocity of the slide. So, I am going to order the "Sprinco Corbon" recoil reduction guide rod system.



If this system fixes my FTF problem then I will be able to shoot this ammo without the porting or compensator and I will most likely install a factory length barrel for better ease of carry. I don't think that I will be giving up anything when it comes to the overall power of the .460 Rowland by using a 4.6" barrel as apposed to a longer one. And, I really like the setup of the G21 with a factory length barrel. I have found that I don't really care for the longer barrels. If I were an avid hunter...

[Stevie-Ray]

What is interesting is that Ace customs uses a 25# spring for thier 45 Super conversions.

Hmmm.....seems as though it ought to be a pound or two less than what the Rowland generally is.

[vaquero aleman]

Not only does Ace custom use a 25# spring in the kit that he no longer sells, I have not been able to locate a 25# spring for sale, anywhere.

[vaquero aleman]

I did it. I clicked the button. I should have my Sprinco "Cor-Bon" recoil reducer by Tuesday of next week. I look foward to testing this thing. Even more, I look foward to having a stock length barrel in my 21 that shoots 460 Rowland. I really hope this thing works out and isn't just another room full of smoke and mirrors.

[vaquero aleman]

I hate reporting bad news. But, we take it on the chin and keep on fighting. I received the Sprinco unit today and went to the shootin hole. I ran a full mag of BB 45 Super 185gr JHP @ 1300fps and 10 rounds of Ga Arms 460 Rowland 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps through the 4.75" LWD barrel with Sprinco Cor Bon recoil reducer. And, unfortunately, it did not fix my feeding problems, close, but not close enough. Also, the slide to frame impact was not reduced in the manner in which was claimed. So I called Sprinco and talked to a gentleman that said "just drop it in the mail to us and we will change out the sub spring and send it back to you, just include return postage". Well, I guess I can't ask for any more than that. Except that they could have done this in the first place, but then it's not thier fault that I had to go and modify my G21 to do something that it was not designed to do. But, it shore is a purdy thang and they did throw in a free bottle of "machine gunner's lube":

[cuba]

vaquero, I don't think that the solution to your problem is slowing the slide by the reaction spring, but speeding up the mag spring to keep up with the gun's recoil, try fitting two mags spring (set two factory springs together and merge them) in a mag tube (it probably won't be able to hold the same amount of rounds) and see if that will fix the FTF problem.

good luck

[cuba]

Did you get the memo????????????

[vaquero aleman]

Cuba, I have not received any memo. If you are referring to your post, I read it and I actually tried to merge two mag springs but they would not fit into the follower, so I could not use them in that manner. But, I appreciate your suggestions.

[vaquero aleman]

What a beast it is! The Sprinco stock Cor Bon recoil reducer did not handle 460 Rowland very well but Sprinco USA has upgraded my unit's sub spring based on the power factor of 310. And they told me that the 17# recoil spring that they provide, with thier recoil reducer, is adequate for the 460 Rowland cartridge. But I have stretched out my Wolff springs so that I will have a 20, 22 and 24# available for experimentation. And I finally got extra power Wolff mag springs. My cut down LWD barrel worked just fine so I don't have to pay another $150 for a factory length barrel. The 4.75" barrel will do just want I want.. I want this beast thoroughly tamed and ready for EDC!

Wikipedia excerpt:
"Conversion kits co-developed by Wild West Guns and Jonny Rowland for the Smith & Wesson M&P, Glock and Springfield Armory Tactical striker type pistols, due to locking system differences, do not require use of a compensator. Slide velocity in these converted firearms is controlled with a change to the recoil spring alone. Consequently, the converted firearm is lighter and more compact than a converted 1911 type."

*But I was just not satisfied in how the 24# recoil spring handled the recoil of this pistol, therefore I placed my faith in the claims of Sprinco USA about thier recoil reducer. It sounds really awsome when you read about it on thier website.



Without modification the small end of the Wolff recoil spring will get hung on the sub spring cover of the Sprinco unit. So I used needle nosed pliers to stretch the small end of the recoil springs.


I have also recieved two bags of Georgia Arms 230gr, so this time I can run more than one mag through. One of the gurus at Georgia Arms told me that he didn't know why thier listing keeps coming up 1350fps. He also said that they cannot go past 1300fps because the primer can't handle any more pressure, so thier 230gr GDHP will remain 1300fps - a mere 863 ft lbs.

[Nanuk]

GREAT WORK!

Thanks....

[vaquero aleman]

If I wasn't shooting with a limp wrist before my range trip, I definitely was afterwards!

If I had to sum up the .460 Rowland (shot without the comp) in a word, it would be - OFFENSIVE!


After shooting 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps today, I just may be inclined to agree with Mr Rowland. I used all three of my recoil springs with the Sprinco unit and just couldn't get the dang thing to feed. The slide is just moving too fast, even with extra power mag springs it is stove piping the next round. But, even if I did get the beast to feed properly, after only three mags I realized that the recoil is more than what could be considered acceptable. That is something that I never expected to be a problem. I guess that I will just have to deal with having a compensator. Although; I was pleasantly suprised when I shot some 45acp - it felt like shooting a bb gun after shooting the Rowland! And, it also helped make me feel better when I put the Wolff rod and 20# spring back in and ran a couple mags of 45acp just like clockwork.

I have decided to run the Beast with the 24# recoil spring on the Sprinco and I finally managed to get two standard mag springs combined(after my range trip, of course) and fitted into the mag so I will see how that works. The two combined springs give an obvious boost to the pushing force that the mag provides, much better than the extra power springs.

Underwood Ammo is now offering 45 Super and I plan on getting some of the 230gr GDHP @ 1100fps and giving that a shot. Or two. After shooting a couple mags of BB 45 Super 185gr @ 1300fps and only having a few jams I have a feeling that the 230gr @ 1100fps can be made to work, with a lot less recoil.

I must say though, even though the Sprinco didn't really help with my feeding issues, it worked perfectly as stated. I could not see any evidence of impact on the frame, even though I felt plenty of impact on my wrist!

If you really want to know what it's like to shoot .460 Rowland, just put one together. I guarantee it will be memorable!

P.S. The only thing that Johnny Rowland's kit has that I don't have is the compensator.

[vaquero aleman]

I know that this is stating the blatantly obvious, but I feel that I must add this disclaimer to my thread:

In my opinion, under no circumstance, should you convert the original Glock barrel to .460 Rowland! The Glock barrel does not have the proper support for the extremely high pressure .460 Rowland. Use only an aftermarket barrel with a "fully supported chamber". This is plainly stated in the remarks of Johnny Rowland, engineer of the .460 Rowland at 460rowland.com. And it should be well known that even 45 Super can cause a KB in an unsupported Glock barrel.

That being said, I finally got some Underwood 45 Super 230gr @ 1100fps on the way. So I guess I'll be backing off on the throttle just a little bit. I think it will be a nice break from the Rowland to shoot some Super for a while.

[vaquero aleman]

I shot 50 rounds of 460 Rowland 230gr @ 1300fps on Friday 29th of June, out of my 4.75" straight barrel/no comp. I thought my double sprung mags were going to work but the last two rounds out of 10 kept jamming. If I could be content with 7 or 8 rounds, it fed perfectly up to the last two rounds. They looked like they were trying to feed at the same time. I guess the violence was shaking them out of the mag. Every magful of ten rounds did the same thing, so I believe this was the last nail in the coffin. No more 460 without a comp.

Even though I couldn't iron out my feeding issue it was still bad ass shooting 460 out of this gun! When I pull the trigger, all I can think is WOW!

Thankfully, it shot 3 mags of 45 Super without failure. I can't really complain about haveing a 230gr Gold Dot hollow point moving at 1100 fps. I don't know much about the competition "power factor" but the 45S 230gr @ 1100fps has a PF of 253 where the 10mm 200gr @ 1250fps has a PF of 250. I have read many threads about Double Tap being chrony'd well below thier velocity ratings, so I do not believe that thier 200gr is actually loaded to 1300fps. Which means, for me, that I will take 45 Super over 10mm any day.

I just wish that I could find the dinero to buy the 4" XD and Johnny's kit, or a G30 and my kit. I believe that they would make a perfect carry piece. I wonder if people are haveing the same feeding issues with the XD and high power ammo?

[Nanuk]

A friend of mine locally tried the 460 in his XD, ported, comp'd, double mag spings...No success. I have a glock 30 I was thinking about trying the 460, that 230 at 1300FPS sound intoxicating. A 230 at 1100 FPS sounds pretty good too. I may just do the 45 super route, then I just need a new BBL and recoil spring, though people have said they shoot fine from the factory BBL, I want a lil more support, and less battering with a heavier spring.

[vaquero aleman]

Wish list:

Glock 30
Lone Wolf Dist 4.37" threaded barrel
Yankee Hill Machine Co. 3 port compensator
Wolff Guide rod
ISMI recoil springs 23# or 24# if I can find them
2 or 3 21 round or better magazines
1000 rds of Georgia Arms 230gr @ 1300fps (5" test barrel)

Good luck with your 30. I would definately like to read about the results. Sorry to hear about your friends XD, I guess 460 Rowland is just a monster.