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Old May 31, 2012, 11:18 AM   #1
Ultra12
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NYC questions- need some help

NYC help!!!
I recently got my NYC premises and target pistol license and picked up my first revolver. I usually go to a friends privates club/range in NJ to shoot my rifle since he has up to 300 yards. As always rifles are transported locked and empty with bullets also locked.
I know that hand guns are a lot more sensitive issue so I called NJPD to inquire about the transport o a handgun over state border. I was told that as long as is locked and empty with bullets locked I can transport it to a range(since I do have a target permit). To double check I called My friend who is NYPD officer who confirmed that a far as he is concerned if he stopes a person who legally has the right to own a gun in NYC everything is fine. I went a step further and called NYPD permit department. An officer picked up the phone and notified me that NO the gun can't be transported out of state (I asked what about something along the lines of an NRA shoot - the answer is still NO) he also told me because my license is restricted premises I can't even go to a range outside NYC(but I can take it hunting all over the state) which doesn't make any sense. So NJPD is ok with me bringing my gun to target practice but NY is not. Now I know as long as you abide by the rulles don't speed no one will know where you are going and what you have in your car but in case some day I do get stopped I would like to know what my rights are and what is allowed and why.

I also asked my NYPD officer friend about Florida and Utah out of state ccw license so that I can carry the gun but mainly have it as a backup on hunting in PA and other local states. He told me that's long as I have the gun registered on that CCW license (so it would be registered under NYC premises license and lets say Florida out of state CCW). I asked the same question to the officer who I brought my gun for inspection and was told that I CANT take my gun that is registered in NYC out of state. And if I have a residence in lets say PA or Florida I will need a diff gun to register and carry under that CCW.

I am getting to completely contradicting answers. I hope maybe someone here is LEO or a lawyer and can give me a concrete answer regarding going to a neighboring state to target practice, using gun as back up in the woods and a Florida out of state CCW.
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Old May 31, 2012, 11:25 AM   #2
Doyle
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The problem with that scenario is that most states (including Utah and FL) have ABSOLUTELY NO firearms registration at all. CCW holders of these states don't have any particular firearms attached to their CCW - they can carry anything they want.
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Old May 31, 2012, 11:37 AM   #3
Ultra12
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So all you need is a permission to carry. I was told its pointless for me to get Florida out of state because I can't take my gun out of NY. If I have fl out of state CCW an PA accepts it I should have no problem in PA. But on case I have to use that gun and it gets back to NYPD as I am sure it will I don't want to loose my license and all my guns
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Old May 31, 2012, 12:00 PM   #4
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I think the boy in the permit department was handing you a line. If they didnt give you a set of rules, laws, or guidelines when you got the permit, then Id go down to the permit department and ask to see the "rules" in writing. Dont take anyone word for it. If they wont give it to you in writing, its BS.
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Old May 31, 2012, 12:03 PM   #5
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The other issue is you're asking the NYC licencing division about it. They seem to either have no clue what they're talking about or just actively trying to mislead people. I'd ask a lawyer. I see no reason why they would have a problem with you taking a gun out of the state. Bringing one in is one thing, but taking a gun out is really none of their concern.
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Old May 31, 2012, 05:03 PM   #6
cetanner
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I think the website www.handgunlaw.us has the updated state by state rules.. You may want to check it out.
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Old May 31, 2012, 06:45 PM   #7
stu925
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From NYPD's License Site:
Quote:
Can I go target shooting outside NYC?

A NYC carry business license is valid throughout NYS. Premise residence and premise business licenses are only valid in NYC except as indicated in the next section.
I'm reading this to mean that your permit is no good outside of NYC but if it's legal for you to have the handgun where you're going it shouldn't be an issue. I would think you'd have more trouble in New Jersey then you would from NYPD for transporting it outside of NYC. Basically it seems to me that the licensing bureau is saying that if you leave NYC and go elsewhere in NYS then your handgun would be illegal.

Stu
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Old June 1, 2012, 11:26 AM   #8
Ultra12
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It's deff a grey area. I also asked for hunting authorization which allows me to transport pistol in nys and carry it loaded while afield. The language is very vague and confusing. It's doesn't make my gun illigal outside NYC but it does violate premises license rules an regulations. So best case scenario no one knows and everything is good worst case licensing devision finds out and take away my license. I wrote a letter to attorney general of ny with a question regarding going to a range outside city limits with hunting authorization. I will update once I receive my answers.
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Last edited by Ultra12; June 1, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old June 1, 2012, 12:58 PM   #9
Aguila Blanca
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I am confused. You mention wanting to shoot at a range in New Jersey, and then you mention Pennsylvania. There's a HUGE difference between NJ and PA as to what's legal and what's not.

Then there's the Federal Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1968 (FOPA). That law might help you here, although in the event of a "situation" it might require the assistance of an attorney to make it stick. The FOPA allows for interstate transport of firearms. It requires that your possession and "carry" (does this mean carry on your person, or "transportation"? It isn't defined.) of the firearm(s) must be legal at the point where the journey begins (your apartment in NYC) and at the point where the journey ends. That's significant. I don't know what NJ law says about a NYC resident possessing a firearm in NJ. I do know that, outside of Philadelphia, it is not an issue in Pennsylvania.

If you trek about in PA, however, having guns in the car can be a problem. PA allows for unlicensed open carry on your person (except in Philadelphia) when on foot, but does NOT allow for unlicensed carry in a vehicle. But PA does recognize non-resident permits from Florida, so that's a possible solution for PA.

New Jersey is much more problematic. You may be facing more problems on the NJ side of the state line than you do on the NY side. However, thanks to the FOPA, you can lawfully transport through NJ en route to PA. (Be advised, however, that NJ tinkered with that, too. The FOPA requires that the firearm(s) OR ammunition must be in a locked container if the vehicle doesn't have a separate trunk. NJ state law says AND. The Federal law supersedes, of course, but proving it in court could be costly. Cheaper to just lock both the guns and the ammo -- if you don't have a sedan with a trunk.)

I will also mention that there is a non-binding "legal" opinion, offered by a non-attorney, on the web site of the PAFOA (Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association) that argues the FOPA does not apply to travel between contiguous states, that it applies only to intervening states when traveling between two states where you can legally possess firearms. This often arises on that site because of the proximity of PA (gun Heaven) to NJ (gun hell). I don't happen to agree with that opinion, but I am not an attorney so I feel I should point out that it's there, since your situation involves travel between contiguous states.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; June 4, 2012 at 05:47 PM.
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Old June 1, 2012, 03:30 PM   #10
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I live on Long Island in Suffolk County. Routinely my office talks out of there rectum and my NYC compatriot has told me of worse. Their job is to discourage you from owning a gun and there is no accountability on their part should they give you false information toward that end.

Check with your local 2A org. NYC makes the rest of the state look reasonable and that isn't easy.
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Old June 1, 2012, 03:32 PM   #11
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Also make certain you do not have a large soda or starbucks coffe with you when transporting in NYC as I believe Bloomberg then has them charge you with an assault beverage.
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Old June 4, 2012, 10:36 AM   #12
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The NYC permit allows you to own the gun in NYC. It only applies to NYC and probably NYS.

You then need to comply with the law in whatever state you plan to bring it to. NYS nor NYC can't put any restrictions on this as they do NOT have jurisdiction in those locations. For example, Florida could probably care less if you brought it down, but you'd need a Non-Resident Concealed carry license to carry.

If you want to shoot in NJ, you need to comply with NJ laws. NJ does NOT allow handguns from out of state except for NRA sanctioned events and to a range. (hunting doesn't apply as I don't know of any legal handgun hunting in this state) Depending on the officer involved and the DA you get stuck with you could be charged with a felony until it gets sorted out. Many of the cops here aren't familiar with the law and tend error on the side of arrest first and let the DA sort it out. As your destination is NJ, FOPA DOES NOT APPLY.

You can apply for an out of state NJ FID (firearms ID, aka purchaser card). Then you could legally buy handgun ammo and bring your firearm to NJ firing ranges and have less risk of a misunderstanding as long as you followed all the goober state rules

If you get an out of state FL concealed carry, you can carry your handgun in FL. ( Not NJ or or NY unless you like jail)
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Old June 4, 2012, 06:15 PM   #13
Glenn Dee
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Unless something has changed drastically and very recently the NYPD no longer issues "target" permits. IIRC they now issue premis/target use permits. Again IIRC you may have a loaded/secured firearm in your home for self protection. If you want to go for target practice or some sporting event you may transport your handgun in a hard side locked container in a locked compartment of your car. (trunk) With any ammo also locked in a seperate container in a different compartment of your car. Funny thing is you can carry the gun in a locked container in your range bag with ammo in the same bag on the subway.

every pistol permit, and every purchase order comes with a detailed list of do's and donts. As far as NJ... once you cross the bridge or tunnel your subject to NY's laws.
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Old June 4, 2012, 07:05 PM   #14
press1280
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I do recall a NYC premesis holder took a pistol to Las Vegas and back and subsequently got his permit yanked, because it wasn't supposed to leave his home.
If you're going to NJ to target shoot, it has to be directly to/from the range with gun and ammo separately in the trunk, absent the elusive NJ CCW.
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