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Old May 29, 2012, 08:15 PM   #26
wncchester
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It takes me about 35-45 seconds to swap dies normally. I can swap dies with bushings in about 5-7 seconds. Percentage wise that's a lot but, fer goodness sakes, the bushings only "save" me less than 2 minutes in a normal 1-2 hour loading session. Saving two minutes sure isn't going to change the quality of my life; it takes me longer than that just to empty my powder measure and trickler and put the powder away!
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Old May 29, 2012, 08:29 PM   #27
dacaur
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Sure you could say it ONLY saves you 2 min... But, why would you spend those two min screwing dies in and out when you dont have too? If there were some actual advantage to not using bushings I could see it, but there isnt an advantage to either method other than one takes more time, one takes less, end of story....
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:12 PM   #28
Scimmia
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Quote:
Sure you could say it ONLY saves you 2 min... But, why would you spend those two min screwing dies in and out when you dont have too? If there were some actual advantage to not using bushings I could see it, but there isnt an advantage to either method other than one takes more time, one takes less, end of story....
One is more expensive than the other.
One adds more possibility for slop or the dies moving while in use.
On the other hand, they save a few seconds per die change. I'm not sure what takes wncchester so long, I just timed myself and changing dies took a hair over 10 seconds start to finish. The bushings would literally save 5-6 seconds per die change. Big woop.

"end of story"

Last edited by Scimmia; May 29, 2012 at 09:33 PM.
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Old May 29, 2012, 09:49 PM   #29
dacaur
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Its also possible that without the bushing how hard you screw the die down against the press can affect it (especialy with lee dies) just as much as any slop in the bushing... which is not a prolem, since the slop in the bushing is accounted for when adjusting the die while loading the first round since the ram presses it all the way to the top, removing the slop...

Not saying one is better than the other, different strokes...

That said, you have serious skill if you can change a die in 10 seconds without a bushing.......

Of course, I have them both beat with my 1 second die changes in my turret
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Old May 30, 2012, 08:37 PM   #30
mikld
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Bushings and removable turrets do nothing to take learning die adjustment out of the equation. The ONLY Thing they do is save you from having to screw the die in till the lock ring touches the press, and then unscrewing it when done. Whether you screw it in each time by hand, or use a bushing to save time, your adjustment is saved by the lock ring. Either way you will need to check the adjustment and adjust if needed each time you use it. A lock ring doesnt make the need for adjustment any more or less likely, it just saves a little labor each time you change dies...
All you gotta do is read some forums, and a new reloader is asking what is wrong with his ammo. He states his L-N-L bushing die set up worked when he started 200 rounds ago, but his cartridges won't go in all the way. Or his crimp isn't working ("it messes up my OAL"). And the answer is, 80% of the time, he doesn't know how to properly adjust his dies. Sure, they go in and out easily and they are supposedly "locked in place", but in reality, if you don't do something you'll never how to do it. If you really need to save those few minutes by using instant in-and-out die sets, mebbe you shouldn't be reloading. My comments are for a new reloader that needs to adjust dies correctly rather than save a few minutes...
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Old May 30, 2012, 11:43 PM   #31
Ideal Tool
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Hello, sparkysteve. While both of the above presses are good..If you don't want to thread dies in and out..have you given any thought to the excellent Forester Co-Ax press? Solid cast-iron & steel const. Dies merely slide in and out. quick-change shell holders. Has one of the best primer-catchers out there.
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Old May 31, 2012, 12:25 AM   #32
droptrd
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Another vote for the Hornady kit here. Youll need to add calipers and a trimmer. I have the hornady press and I love it. The die bushings fit any major brand of dies.

The quick change bushings are nice. I know old school guys cant accept the fact that they work. They dont cause any problems. I mean, bushings or no bushings, youre gonna check out your rounds every-so-many right? If the die did start to move in the bushing or the bushing did move in the press (I dont have a problem with them moving in the press), you would make the propper adjustment. Then the old school guys will say " why have a press with bushings at all then?" Who cares. The Bushings are a plus. They are consistant.

Also, Hornady has great deals going on right now where you get free bullets.

Another point, the RCBS is using chinese steel Im told. This negates the cast iron vs aluminum advantage IMO. I recently cracked a 6 inch bench vise made from chinese steel. Had nothing to do with reloading but still, I couldnt believe it. So RCBS press= some out sourced materials and parts. Hornady press= US materials and parts.

Last edited by droptrd; May 31, 2012 at 12:38 AM.
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Old May 31, 2012, 01:18 AM   #33
dacaur
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..And the answer is, 80% of the time, he doesn't know how to properly adjust his dies. Sure, they go in and out easily and they are supposedly "locked in place", but in reality, if you don't do something you'll never how to do it. .
But even threading the die in and out, you are just threading it in to the lock ring, so the same newb that says "die set up worked when I started 200 rounds ago, but my cartridges won't go in all the way." Will have the same problem screwing the die in till the lock ring touches the press as he will using a bushing....

I mean come on, its not like you are adjusting the die AS you thread it in to the lock ring. THAT'S WHAT THE LOCK RINGS ARE FOR. In theory, your adjustments will stay the same, but you still check the first round to see if anything needs adjustment. You do that whether its in a bushing or just screwed down to the lock ring. Why do you assume someone with a bushing is any less likley to check their die adjustment than someone who screws their dies in and out? Its not like lazy newbs are a new phenomenon that appeared when presses came out with bushings. It never even occured to me that a bushing would mean I didnt have to check die adjustment each time I used it, Its common sense to check it. If someone lacks common sense, they will still lack it whether it takes them 30 seconds or 3 seconds to install a die....
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Old May 31, 2012, 01:51 AM   #34
Scimmia
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The quick change bushings are nice. I know old school guys cant accept the fact that they work.
I don't believe anyone said they don't work, mearly that they don't really save enough to justify the extra expense.

Quote:
Another point, the RCBS is using chinese steel Im told. This negates the cast iron vs aluminum advantage IMO. I recently cracked a 6 inch bench vise made from chinese steel. Had nothing to do with reloading but still, I couldnt believe it. So RCBS press= some out sourced materials and parts. Hornady press= US materials and parts.
RCBS denies that, but even if it's true, it doesn't make it junk. All chinese iron isn't going to be the same, just as all American iron isn't the same. Steel really is a whole different ball game from iron anyway.
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Old May 31, 2012, 10:44 AM   #35
mikld
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My comments are for a new reloader that needs to adjust dies correctly rather than save a few minutes...
The above is what Im saying. So your saying that it isn't necessary to learn adjustment (for a new reloader) and once the lock ring is set, it's set forever and never needs to be re-adjusted? So in coonclusion you mean that we should have our dies set from the factory and never be concerned with the die setting again and forever...

This thread had gotten silly. Simple learning methods don't apply to reloading?

Outta here...
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Old May 31, 2012, 11:44 AM   #36
mohr308
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I just bought a single stage LEE breech lock challenger press. I used it for the first time today to work my 5.56 ammo for my AR. The breech lock bushings are great!

http://leeprecision.com/breech-lock-challenger-kit.html
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Old May 31, 2012, 05:09 PM   #37
c.j.sikes
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reloading presses

just get a good single hole pres, best place to lean. cjs
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