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Old May 17, 2012, 09:15 AM   #1
Ike666
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Re-seating 9mm, re-crimp?

Well, I loaded up 1500 9mm with the bullets (115 grain Berry's RN) seated at 1.315. I didn't bother to check the books first - after all I've loaded 10s of thousands of these. But its actually been more than 5 years since I last loaded for the 9.

I set up my 550 and checked everything including the seating depth, and even cycled several through my Browning HP (throated barrel with polished feed ramp) and all was fine. I didn't check the reference data and I have no idea what the last bullet I used was, but it seemed like all the settings were fine - uh-huh.

Got to the range, and ripped through about 300 with the HP. No F2Fs, ran like a charm. Then I took out my Kahr - a first gen K9 that I really, really like. Right off I started having feed problems - wouldn't load all the way into battery from slide release and needed "forward assist" and would F2F on the first cycled round. Put the K9 away and went on and shot some other pistols.

Measured when I got home AND checked the COL in the 8th Hndy book (calls for 1.100). My rounds were at 1.315 - problem solved (I hope). Now, I'm re-seating the 1000 or so I have left from that batch. Tore down my set-up from the Dillon toolhead and set up the seating die in my Forster (The 550 is set up for .45 ACP and I didn't want to mess with it).

With the 9s re-seated to a COL of 1.1, I'm wondering if I need to go to the trouble of re-crimping. The dies (both seat and taper crimp) are Dillons. The rounds pass the thumb test and the bench press test. They "look and feel" the same (finger around case mouth test). What say ye?
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Old May 17, 2012, 09:58 AM   #2
g.willikers
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Try a few just by seating the bullet as needed, without any further crimp.
Then try them to see if they cycle ok.
They will probably be fine without any more crimping.
But the gun will tell you.
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Old May 17, 2012, 10:06 AM   #3
serf 'rett
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Assuming you did check your powder charge was correct (one has to ask), you’re probably good to go.

The only thing I would consider is pulling a few bullets to see if the copper plating has been damaged by the reseating process. The bullets may be damaged if the original taper crimp was “tight.”
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Old May 17, 2012, 12:57 PM   #4
Ike666
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Yep, the powder was Power Pistol at 6.4 g - just hot of of mid-range. I haven't pulled any, but that is a good idea. The taper crimp doesn't usually do much to the plating, but I will check it.
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Old May 17, 2012, 03:13 PM   #5
serf 'rett
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Power Pistol at 6.4?

Off subject, but I was wondering if you had clocked that load? For jacketed bullets, my Lyman manual shows the 6.2 as a mid-range load and the Lee shows it as a starting load.

I'm using 6.2 grains of Power Pistol under a 115 gr. Berry RN, set at 1.120” with CCI primer in R-P brass. The load “felt” hot, but produced the best groups out of the ladder I tested a year ago. I don’t own a chronograph (yet), but a friend has shown up at the range with his a couple of times. Last fall, temp in upper 60’s, I tested 5 rounds and got average of 1192 fps with 37 fps extreme spread. A few weeks ago, I tested 5 more rounds and got average of 1252 fps with 60 fps extreme spread at temp of upper 80s. Pistol is Springfield XDm 9mm stock.

Since I’m slightly over Berry’s recommended upper limit of 1200 fps, I was wondering if you had chronographed your loads?
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Old May 17, 2012, 03:21 PM   #6
Ike666
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No, I haven't clocked them yet - but I will tomorrow. I've used 6.4 with straight LRNs in the past with no problems - no leading (not with the Kahr tho - has an octagonal barrel).
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Old May 17, 2012, 04:26 PM   #7
serf 'rett
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I'm interested in what velocities you find. Thanks.
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Old May 17, 2012, 06:41 PM   #8
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Just to rub it in,
COL is dependent on the bullet's ogive, your magazine's lips, your feedramp, and your chamber.
Notice that the reloading manual folks have NO IDEA what any of those variables are, so their COL is no more than what they used with their components and their gun. It can only be taken as the minimum COL that the data applies to.
My two BHPs require a shorter COL than any of my other 9x19s, yet many say that they are throated long.
Always, Always, Always check a couple of inert dummy rounds in the barrels of all the guns you plan to shoot the rounds through.
Never, never, never load more than 100 rounds until you have actually fired the rounds through the guns you are loading for.
In your case, the rounds are probably too short. However, why not remove the barrel from the gun, mark-up the bullet ogive and about 1/4" of the case around the case mouth, of one of the rounds that won't chamber, with black Magic Marker, and drop in the barrel. Rotate the round back-and-forth a couple of times. Where the hang-up is will be shown by the Magic Marker being scrapped. This will verify that it really is the COL that is the problem.
Yes, you can re-seat the bullets deeper, provided the data you have references a still shorter COL. However;
1) you may damage those cursed plated bullets, in which case you will not get acceptable accuracy and may get some leading. There are sources of jacketed bullets for the same price. Buy in bulk.
2) the rounds may not feed reliably in the Hi-Power any more. My two BHPs are very sensitive to COL.
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Old May 18, 2012, 07:51 PM   #9
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Every once in a while I see someone say you can find jacketed bullets for the same price as plated but I never seem to be able to find those deals. What kind of bulk do you have to buy to get that price? I usually buy 2000 at a time and I find plated to be about $20 - $30 cheaper per thousand.

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Old May 18, 2012, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Every once in a while I see someone say you can find jacketed bullets for the same price as plated but I never seem to be able to find those deals. What kind of bulk do you have to buy to get that price?
I buy 115 gr. FMJ 9mm bullets for $0.07625 each delivered from Montana Gold by the case. If you can buy plated for $20 to $30 less per thousand, then you are only paying $46 to $56 per thousand delivered. I have never seen plated for that pricing.
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Old May 19, 2012, 02:16 PM   #11
Ike666
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Update

Well, I have re-seated about half the batch.

Pulled one to check for crimp damage and it had a distinct crimp line.

Went to the range yesterday and took everything - except the reseated rounds. In the words of Roseanne Rosannadana, "Its always something."

Went back today to function test and chrono the reseated rounds. I fired three 10-round strings with the BHP and three 7-round strings with the K9. Both functioned flawlessly with no F2Fs.

The results for the BHP were:
String One: Average=1208, SD=15.7
String Two: 1202, 13.9
String Three: 1210, 10.7
Grand mean= 1206.67

For the Kahr:
String One: Average= 1156, 15.5
String Two: 1156, 20.8
String Three: 1152, 23.3
Grand mean= 1154.67

Overall, they are good enough for plinking rounds so I'm content.

I didn't expect a change in function for the BHP (mine is not the least bit finicky). With the Kahr, I had one failure to chamber the initial round from slide lock when I manually pulled the slide back and released it, but every time I used the slide release it chambered just fine.

The Browning is just above the book value for 6.4 of PP (1200) and just above Berry's recommended MV for this bullet - but not by much. The Kahr with the shorter barrel was well below the 1200 fps limit.
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Old May 19, 2012, 04:20 PM   #12
serf 'rett
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Thanks for the range report!

I was wondering if you had a guess of the temperature while you were testing, because I seemed to get an approximate 50 fps higher velocity with a 20 degree temperature rise. From my sketchy country boy testing, it appears that even though my rounds are 0.020 inches shorter and have 0.2 grains less Power Pistol, they are getting down range just a tad quicker.

I suspect we’d be seeing some closer numbers if I owned a real pistol like a BHP, instead of a poly Springfield.

I guess when the Kahr manual says to load using the slide release, well there is a reason. I find the 115 gr Berrys with 6.2 Power Pistol to be a rip snortin' load in my little poly Kahr P9, but the little pistol can really punch the holes close to each other.

Thanks again!
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Old May 19, 2012, 07:04 PM   #13
Ike666
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It was in the mid-70s here today, CAVU, and no wind.

Perhaps I should dig out my Kahr manual! Never thought of that...

The slide velocities are definitely brisk in the K9 but it is certainly not uncomfortable. That heavier frame probably helps a bit.
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Old May 19, 2012, 11:27 PM   #14
Mac Sidewinder
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Jepp2,

I see that I need to up the number of bullets I order at one time. If I ordered 4000 (the case you use) then yes I can get them cheaper than plated but if I only order my normal order (2000) at a time then they are more expensive per 1000 than plated.

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