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Old May 5, 2012, 08:42 AM   #1
Hoosier_Daddy
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Why a hollow base bullet for 9mm?

Very new loader here with a question. I started looking into Berry's plated bullets for 9mm. Assuming that the HB in HBFP means hollow base, what are the advantages of a hollow base bullet oven a non hollow base bullet?

Last edited by Hoosier_Daddy; May 5, 2012 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Corrected the word back to base and added 9mm.
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Old May 5, 2012, 09:00 AM   #2
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The HB stands for Hollow BASE. The HB design shifts some of the weight forward to give more of the bullet to ride the bore, or more metal to form the point. A bit more bore/rifling contact can result in better accuracy, but it also might raise pressure a bit because of increased friction.

Loading the HB design is not much different than a solid base bullet. Start at minimum powder charge and gradually increase to find where max is.
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Old May 5, 2012, 09:13 AM   #3
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For good accuracy a bullet must obiturate (expand) and seal the bore. a hollow base allows this to happen at a little lower pressure IE light target loads. the old 148gr hollow base wad cutter is a staple among 38special target shooters.
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Old May 5, 2012, 09:17 AM   #4
Mike Irwin
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Depending on what you're shooting, the hollow base may have another purpose. Bore diameters on some older cartridges have changed over the years, leaving older guns with oversized bores. A hollow base can allow the "skirt" to expand into the rifling and give you at least some hope of accuracy.

.38 long and. 41 long colt are two examples.
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Old May 5, 2012, 10:02 AM   #5
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Old May 5, 2012, 10:05 AM   #6
snuffy
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From berry's website;

Quote:
9mm 124gr HBRN-TP
gun ammunition

These bullets are a thick plate and the hollow base adds length to the bullet profile giving more bearing surface. Added bearing surface helps with accuracy in pistol barrels. Thicker plating lets you push these bullets to 1450fps in open guns in calibers like .38 Super
http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14..._HBRN_TP.aspx#

A look at the picture of those 9mm bullets, shows a hole in the base. The base is so thick that I doubt it would expand to seal the bore much at all.

H-daddy, you didn't say what caliber, just using the 9mm for an example.
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Old May 5, 2012, 10:06 AM   #7
BDS-THR
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(snuffy and I posted at the same time)

Berry's regular plated bullets with solid bases are rated to 1200 fps and I use lead load data or start-to-mid range jacketed load data with good results.

The Hollow Base bullets have thicker plating (HB-TP) and rated to 1450 fps and I use jacketed load data with good results.

For accuracy loads, I have used FMJ with exposed lead base that will expand better to seal with the barrel. As Mike posted, Berry's Hollow Base bullets have longer bearing surface to better stabilize the bullet and expand to seal with the barrel for less high pressure gas leakage that produce more consistent chamber pressures (which in turn translates to greater accuracy).

IME, Berry's HBRN-TP loads outshoot my reference FMJ loads.
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Old May 5, 2012, 01:34 PM   #8
Mike Irwin
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" As Mike posted, Berry's Hollow Base bullets have longer bearing surface"

That was Snuffy.

I was the one giving the historical perspective that, well, doesn't have much use other than to make people go "hum, that's marginally interesting" and then move on to something completely different.
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Old May 5, 2012, 05:06 PM   #9
Hoosier_Daddy
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Thank you for the info eveyone. I have been lurking around here for a while but this Berry's Hollow Base had me puzzled as to why it existed and what does it improve upon.
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Old May 5, 2012, 06:28 PM   #10
BDS-THR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by bds
As Mike posted, Berry's Hollow Base bullets have longer bearing surface
That was Snuffy.
Oooops!

Really, I was "thinking" snuffy but somehow managed to type "Mike" ...

And I am not even old ... Oh no!!! God help me!!!
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Old May 6, 2012, 12:38 AM   #11
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A couple of years ago, I ordered 1,000 9mm Full Metal Jacket bullets of 115 grs., made by Winchester.
When they arrived, I was surprised to find they had a small hollow base.
I searched the internet and found an interesting claim:
The hollowbased 115 gr. Winchester 9mm bullet has a hollow base so the bullet is the same length as the 124 gr. full metal jacket by Winchester. This allows for bullet seating on the same machines, without making an adjustment.
Makes sense.
Now, whether it's true I don't know but it appears reasonable. I don't have a Winchester 124 gr. bullet to compare it against.
So perhaps your 9mm bullets with a slight hollow are a little lighter than another bullet by the same manufacturer, but share the same profile.
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Old May 7, 2012, 06:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
what are the advantages of a hollow base bullet
As stated, weight forward, higher surface area of bullet to bore contact and better bullet to bore seal; all of which can produce better groups.

Please note that the 124 HBFP noted in the opening post is a different animal from the 124 HBRN-TP snuffy references. As I understand it, the 124 HBFP upper limit is 1200 fps, while the 124 HBRN-TP (TP standing for thick plated) can be pushed to the quoted 1450 fps.

I’ve been using both of these bullets for a little more than a year and will be ordering more soon. I’ve had no problems at all and have been very pleased. At the present time, I’m showing a little more favoritism toward the 124 HBFP. It’s not that there seems to any performance difference, but the Flat Point version makes a cleaner hole in the IDPA targets, so it a little easier for my poor old eyes to register hits (and misses).

I will mention one thing about loading the 124 HBFP bullet. The bullet shape is different, in that it has a “wide” tip. The first rounds I loaded were to long; resulting in the round head spacing of the lands instead of the cartridge case mouth. I had to do a little tinkering to get my cartridge overall length right for one of my pistol.
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Old May 8, 2012, 08:19 AM   #13
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One thing I wish that berry's site would do is explain more about there bullets. Where did you guys find the velocities? I've been working up loads for my 9mm hi point carbine with the Berry's 124 HP. I noticed on the berry's site that they are going to be getting a new line of hollow points. Will this completly replace the current hollow points?

After reading this thread I thought about trying the HBRN-TP for the carbine. The velocities you guys were posting are for short pistol barrels correct? I should be getting more velocity out of a 16" barrel right?
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Old May 8, 2012, 01:16 PM   #14
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I still have thousands of Montana Gold 124 CMJ so not ready to change BUT someone gave me a few 124 of the new Berry's heavy plated and with the hollow base they fit exactly the same without any adjustment and the same compression load with Unique and within a variance of 25 FPSish so I might have to consider them when this 4000 MG is run through. They seem to be just as accurate in my CZ's also. Maybe next year.
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Old May 8, 2012, 04:45 PM   #15
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CS86, the current hollow point bullet in the plated lineup at Berrys is NOT a defensive hollow point. It's a challenging bullet to load, and can be quite accurate, but the hollow point cavity is not made to expand, perhaps deform would be the best thing it could do.
The NEW Berry's Hollow Point is indeed a self defense bullet they have been working on for quite some time now, a top shelf SD bullet equal to any of the others out on the market today. They are ironing out any small bugs, and it should be in production soon.

The hollow base 115 grain 9mm Berry's bullets are a favorite of one of my moderators, and he has quite a ibt published over there about loading them. I haven't had a chance to try them yet, but the standards 115 round nose works very well. Call Berry's, ( 1 (800) 269-7373), and buy a sampler if you want - or if you want to try some of the 124 grain "hollow point" target bullets drop me a PM and I'll send you a few.
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Old May 8, 2012, 05:18 PM   #16
CS86
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Why do they make a HP if its not ment to expand?

I actually thought the 9mm Berry's 124gr HP would expand due to its deeper cavity. I tried to shoot it into (4) 1gal. jugs of water to see the expansion but it went through all 4 and I didn't get to see the outcome. I should of used wet newspaper. I then shot into the side of a hill of pure sand. It mushroomed nice. I was going to bring it home and forgot to take it off the 4wheeler so it bounced off somewhere .

I initially bought this bullet to try in my 9mm springfield, but the seating depth was so shallow that I'm a little scared to try it. So I have been testing it in my hi point 9mm carbine, which gives me a much longer COAL. Its been a lot of fun testing the round. I found that the bullet was more accurate with the a longer jump to the lands. I wish I had a chrono to see what my speeds are.
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Old May 8, 2012, 05:59 PM   #17
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CS86 - In answer to the where the Berry data came from:

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-...d_Bullets.aspx
and
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q10-c1-...e_bullets.aspx

I suspect the 1200 fps and 1500 fps limits would apply to any firearm.
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Old May 9, 2012, 10:25 PM   #18
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All I know is they shoot clean as a whistle and very accurately. 124grain Berrys HBFP over 3.9-4.0 grains of N320 gets me 1000fps of pure joy out of my P89. If powdervalley wasnt out of stock on the 1000 pack I would have a whole cabinet full of them. Even at $21 for 250 I think they are a good deal.
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