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Old March 11, 2012, 01:42 PM   #1
hooligan1
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Easy question.

Just came up from the laboratory,,, and our (my son's and I) question of the day is: Since our Lyman Orange Crusher press has a camming action that repeats itself,, Is it neccessary to take a casing through both trips of the handle?
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Old March 11, 2012, 02:45 PM   #2
Lost Sheep
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I don't understand the question

I don't understand the question.

You operate the handle. The ram goes up. The ram goes down. One round trip per case per die.

If you are talking about the "past top dead center" issue, then, no, it doesn't HAVE to, but it is a good idea so that all rounds receive the same treatment. Trying to stop at exactly tdc is not that easy and could result in inconsistent crimps and such.

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If it is the tdc (or "cam over") that I imagine, you might like to read this thread on another forum
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=645552

Last edited by Lost Sheep; March 11, 2012 at 02:52 PM. Reason: add link to the other thread
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Old March 11, 2012, 02:55 PM   #3
hooligan1
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What I mean exactly is this: the cartridge goes in the lever goes down, forcing the shell into the die.. then the lever cams over bring the shell out of the die, the lever is now in the down position and the shell has gone through the sizing and been deprimed, now I raise the handle back into the starting position and the shell goes back into the die for a second trip (so to speak) is this neccessary?
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Old March 11, 2012, 03:02 PM   #4
Lost Sheep
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I understand now

As nearly as I can tell it is necessary only so that you can get the casing back out of the die. The fraction of an inch of "double repeat" is superfluous, I think.

I think the thread I mentioned in the edit to my earlier post would be worthwhile for you to read.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=645552

Good luck.

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Old March 11, 2012, 03:55 PM   #5
flashhole
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When I use a press with cam-over I adjust the die down sufficiently far that the camming actions creates the maximum extension of the ram/shell holder to the die. There is no room to pull the case out of the die. Mine is a Redding Ultramag press, not experienced with the Lyman but it sounds odd to me there would be enough travel in the handle/rod to extract the case from the die by going beyond cam over.

I have a Lee Classic Cast that has a mechanical stop on the linkage to keep the press from camming over. On that press I simply adjust the die down far enough that I don't bottom out on the stop.
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Old March 16, 2012, 07:40 PM   #6
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Sooooooooo, the case goes in and thats enough.... no need for two full insertions into the die? okay thanks
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Old March 16, 2012, 08:14 PM   #7
Lost Sheep
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OK, I understand, but am confused.

After the cam-over, how far does the case come out of the die? Does it come out far enough that you could take the case out of the shell holder? (I have never seen a press do that, is why I ask.)

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Old March 17, 2012, 06:51 AM   #8
hooligan1
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Oh yeah man, thats why I asked,,, it seems to me that there is no good reason for the brass to go through twice just because the ram makes two trips. This Lyman press has done this from the offset many moons ago, and igt doesn't really affect the cases but enough is enough!!!! maybe, the getting into practice of "one trip in" will be easier than we think,,,, I have double sized more than just one "truckload" of rifle cartridges!!!!!!
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Old March 17, 2012, 10:09 AM   #9
CherokeeT
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I have never seen a single stage reloading press where you have to run the case into the die twice. All the presses I have seen/used were: handle up, ram at bottom, insert case in shell holder, moving the handle down runs the case into the die, moving the handle back up withdraws the case, remove case and go to the next one. I just looked at the Crusher and I don't see how it could require two trips into the die, and the one I had years ago did not.
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Old March 17, 2012, 01:18 PM   #10
Lost Sheep
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Let me clarify my question

Let me ask my question most clearly

When you move your press' handle, the case goes into the die. As you move the further in the same direction, the case comes out of the die.

Does the case come all the way out of the die (without you having reversed the direction of movement of the handle)?

If that answer is "yes", then I want to see pictures (preferably video). There is something very strange about your press.

Thanks,

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Old March 17, 2012, 02:51 PM   #11
hooligan1
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My camera doesn't shoot video for some reason (12 year old son), and the only way I can explain it simply is that: the lever starts out in the upright position, set brass in shellholder, the pull the handle downward sending brass into die..........while still moving the handle downward, the brass then comes out of the die..............as you pull the handle back into it's original position it sends the brass back into the die and by the time the handle is in the uprightmost position the brass comes back to original position....... And yes the shellholder "lightly" kisses the die bottom,,,,,, but it still cams over...........

And the ONLY thing I wanted to learn is the second trip neccessary?

And your answer is YES Lostsheep...
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Old March 17, 2012, 03:24 PM   #12
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http://www.pistoleer.com/lyman/pics/LyC_RPK_Crusher.pdf

Don't have a Orange Crusher myself. Looked at the owners manual (See attached link) and it sounds like you are missing the "Positive Stop" mentioned toward the bottom of the first page.

You must be sending the handle nearly to the floor to get a rifle cartridge to cycle all the way back out of the die.
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Old March 17, 2012, 07:20 PM   #13
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Cascade now were getting somewhere!!!
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Old May 1, 2012, 11:26 AM   #14
Spacemanvic
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I have the exact same issue

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I was wondering Hooligan, what was the final answer?

I have a Lyman Orange crusher press, and experience the exact same over-travel you described.

When setting my RCBS depriming/decapping die, I have to watch when the ram is at its highest point, hold it there, then screw down the die to touch the shell holder.

Problem with this press is if I were to let the arm go completely down. The ram rises to its highest point when the arm is about 3/4 of the way down. If I were to let the arm go all the way down, then the ram drops a bit.

I read the Lyman owners manual, and it speaks of a positive stop, I have yet to find this mythical stop.
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Old May 1, 2012, 02:26 PM   #15
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"I read the Lyman owners manual, and it speaks of a positive stop, I have yet to find this mythical stop. "

The "mythical stop" is where the lever and toggle's rotation stops and I suspect you find it each time you use that lever thingy. ??

Easy question, easy answer: Only reason to 'reinsert' the case into the die after rotating passed top dead center is to get the case back out. The lever and toggle sure can't continue to rotate in the same direction.
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Old May 2, 2012, 08:52 AM   #16
Spacemanvic
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"The "mythical stop" is where the lever and toggle's rotation stops and I suspect you find it each time you use that lever thingy. ??"

The problem that I and the OP ran into is that when you release the arm, the ram rises to it's highest point, then descends as the arm swings down to a vertical position without pause. There is nothing to stop the lever and handle from swinging completely down.

According to Lyman's PDF:

Quote:
NOTE: A positive stop built into the frame blocks handle travel after the ram has passed top dead center. No further pressure should be applied, once the stop is reached, to prevent possible damage to the press.
Nothing is blocking the handle's travel, hence for me a mythical stop. I havent seen it yet.

I did get the press 2nd hand, is there something broken/missing from the press? Ive looked at the part call-out and all the parts are there and in place.

Last edited by Spacemanvic; May 2, 2012 at 08:58 AM.
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Old May 3, 2012, 07:30 PM   #17
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All that needs to be done is screw the die in further to prevent the overtravel of the ram. It will make its own stop.
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Old May 4, 2012, 05:00 PM   #18
hooligan1
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nothing needs to be done, as I have got it figgered out!
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Old May 5, 2012, 05:45 PM   #19
Lost Sheep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashhole
All that needs to be done is screw the die in further to prevent the overtravel of the ram. It will make its own stop.
Except that, if you are using a Tungsten-Carbide (straight-walled cartridge cases) sizing die, the shell holder contacting the T-C ring at the bottom runs the risk of cracking the T-C sizing ring and ruining your die.

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Old May 7, 2012, 02:48 PM   #20
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That's kinda what Im doing (stopping when the shell holder touches the bottom of the die). I did manage to bend the primer punch pin and the stem that opens the case mouth this weekend on my brand-ee-new RCBS 223 short die
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