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Old April 29, 2012, 10:22 PM   #1
William T. Watts
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Once fired 30/30 W-W cases Cracked

Of late I have encountered a number of Winchester 30/30 cases that have cracked mouth or shoulders, I don't recall running into this problem in years past. I just realized all of my 30/30 brass unfired (550 rounds) once fired (1200 rounds) is all Winchester. I just purchased the rifle a few months ago, all of the brass was recently purchased.. I noticed the primers were backing out of the cases, apparently the cases were not stretching to the bolt face and reseating the primers.. Dang it!! William

Last edited by William T. Watts; April 29, 2012 at 11:12 PM.
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Old April 29, 2012, 10:52 PM   #2
farmerboy
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never seen this but it is interesting. All my 30-30 brass is from 15-20 years ago and got a lifetime of it stockpiled. But it wouldnt surprise me to see this happening in all calibers of new brass but hopefully not. Just stock up on any and all brass you can now.
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Old April 30, 2012, 12:09 AM   #3
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It's possible you have a batch of bad brass, but that would likely be talked about pretty widely and would not be a small problem. Have you done any measuring on fired cases to see how far out of spec they may have deformed or how they spec before firing? First intuition is to get a chamber casting made. You may have something out of spec with your new 30-30.
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Old April 30, 2012, 01:25 AM   #4
warningshot
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Run 10 or 15 rounds of factory 30-30 thru your gun and see if those cases crack.
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Old April 30, 2012, 04:15 AM   #5
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
I just purchased the rifle a few months ago,
Your purchase Sir. Was this rifle new or previously used? brand & model of rifle would be helpful too?
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Old April 30, 2012, 05:42 AM   #6
mehavey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William
I noticed the primers were backing out of the cases, apparently the cases were not stretching to the
bolt face and reseating the primers.
Nothing (generally) wrong w/ Winchester brass (at least in my experience. Others have different tales.)

That said, I'd first get a headspace check if the primers have that much room to back out.

Once checked (and if in spec), I'd suspect un-annealed shoulders/necks on the cases
-- AND/OR --

the rim on the brass is not thick enough to handle the kind of lockup you're dealing w/ if you're shooting a lever action.
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Old April 30, 2012, 07:02 AM   #7
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Are the cracked ones reloads? Load data would help. Sounds like you may be loading them too soft. If you load them too soft they might not be sealing in the chamber or have enough recoil to set the primers back into the case.
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Old April 30, 2012, 08:31 AM   #8
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I had that same experience with a bag of 7mm Rem Mag brass I bought last year. New brass in a factory bag, and for the life of me I can't remember if the brass was Remington or Winchester. I prepped it all, like I do new brass and on the first firing a considerable percentage (about 30%) showed splits in the shoulder. I chalked it up to bad annealing at the factory and didn't make an issue of it.

.30-30 brass has that long, lovely thin neck that cast bullet shooters so admire and I suppose it's possible that a bad batch gets out once in a while.
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Old April 30, 2012, 09:42 AM   #9
William T. Watts
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I had loaded 20 rounds and fired when I notice the primer was backing out of the primer pocket, I looked a little closer and discovered several cases had split neck/shoulder (3 out of 20 cases). I checked another 40-50 once fired cases and found several with the same defect. I can't recall when I purchased them on Gunbroker only that they were purchased prior to buying a new 336 Marlin. I think I will (try) to anneal twenty cases, if that doesn't work I have several boxes of factory ammo. William

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Old April 30, 2012, 11:33 AM   #10
Salmoneye
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We need load data...

Also...'New' 'Marlin'...

Are we talking Remlin, or JM Marlin?

Remington has had a lot of issues taking over production of the Marlin lever guns...
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Old April 30, 2012, 11:37 AM   #11
William T. Watts
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The Marlin/Remington rifle

Convoluted to say the least, the original rifle was one of the last to leave the Marlin factory before Remington bought them out. The 1st rifle was defective and shipped to Remington to be repaired, Remington sent a replacement rifle serial #MR002XXA apparently one of the first rifles Remington built. The rifle is attractive and groups fairly well (haven't shot it much). Back to the brass, all of these cases were fired in new rifles by the manufacture to check the rifles for function. Of the once fired Winchester cases I have checked many of the primers ARE NOT FLUSH with the case head. This isn't that unusual with this type rifle, what does bother me is the cracking. I've mic a number of the cases over the expansion ring, nothing out of the ordinary. What I have noted over the years is Winchester brass is the hardest of the commercially available American manufactured brass. It appears this lot of cases were manufactured at or near the same time. All of the once fired brass was purchased mid last year off gunbroker from the same fellow. Apparently these were fired in new rifles at the old Marlin factory to ensure they functioned properly.

Now to the loads I used (1st 30.0gr of IMR4895 170gr Hornady FN with F-C standard primer velocity 2003FPS)
(2nd load I increased the powder to 30.5gr all the other components remained the same, velocity 2073FPS).
Third and last 31.0gr of IMR4895 all the other components remained the same velocity 2096FPS there was only a 23FPS gain for an additional .5gr of Powder, Since there was so small a velocity gain between 30.5gr & 31.0gr (23FPS) I consider 30.5gr a maximum load for my rifle.

Once fired cases were used for all three loads!

I do have New/Virgin factory primed Winchester cases that I will load identical loads for my next range session.. William

Last edited by William T. Watts; April 30, 2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old April 30, 2012, 12:53 PM   #12
NYPD13
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Had the same problem last year with Winchester brass, cracked shoulders and split necks after one or two loadings. Figured it was a bad lot as my Federal, Remington and Hornady brass have several more loadings without issue.
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Old April 30, 2012, 02:40 PM   #13
Salmoneye
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Then I doubt it is the load, or the gun...

Interesting that the case is not stretching to fill the chamber...It does inded seem that you have some off brass...
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Old April 30, 2012, 05:53 PM   #14
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Well, this backs up my earlier statement: if it is a brass issue, there would be more talk to support it--it seems there IS. Bad annealing from the factory would be a quick guess, as you've already mentioned. Your loads seem to be right in line. If the same load doesn't produce similar outcomes in different brass, that pretty much sums up the general problem.
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Old April 30, 2012, 07:04 PM   #15
William T. Watts
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New cases

I have Virgin Winchester cases loaded with identical loads, I hope to make a trip to the range this weekend, I'll post the results.. William
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Old May 7, 2012, 09:23 AM   #16
William T. Watts
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No splitting in neck/shoulder with new W-W cases

No cracks or splits occured in the neck or shoulder area with Winchester new cases. I didn't expect to see anything out of the ordinary and didn't, I will continue to use the once fired Winchester cases. I found the rifle produce very good accuracy with the Speer 170gr FN, in the past I used Hornady flat nose only for the 30/30. William
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