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Old May 4, 2012, 07:27 PM   #1
HisDudeness
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Gun Purchase DELAYED!?

Hello,

So I just got back from my FFL where I was informed that my purchase is being delayed after a phone call to whomever was on the other end of that line. I was told it could take up to 6 additional days. I did some digging around here on TFL and from what I've read my military security clearance is most likely the culprit. I also read here that in some states you can bypass big brother by confirming your eligibility one time with a concealed weapons permit. Supposedly once you do this future checks will only be done at the state level. Is that the case here in Arizona? Concealed weapons permits are no longer required in AZ to CCW but the headache saved when gun buying may be worth the effort. I don't want a rant about wait times and such, I'm only trying to ascertain how I can speed up the process next time if at all possible.
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Old May 4, 2012, 07:38 PM   #2
Young.Gun.612
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It takes up to 3 more business days. If you haven't been denied by the third day, it more or less automatically approves the transfer. Or so I'm told.
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:16 PM   #3
Tom Servo
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Quote:
I did some digging around here on TFL and from what I've read my military security clearance is most likely the culprit.
That's just speculation. Lots of factors can contribute to a delay, but it's hard to nail down which applied in your case.

You could have a name similar to that of someone who makes bad life choices, such as His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.

Young Gun is correct. The FBI has three business days to make a determination. If they haven't done so by then, it's their problem, and the dealer can release the gun to you.
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:20 PM   #4
InigoMontoya
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Why would a security clearance delay anything? If anything, it should expedite (but it doesn't).
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:29 PM   #5
laytonj1
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Quote:
from what I've read my military security clearance is most likely the culprit
If that were true then I would always be "delayed", but, that is not the case. Mine always comes back "proceed" within seconds.

Jim
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:32 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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Did your dudeness put his dudeness' SSN on the form?
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:43 PM   #7
HisDudeness
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You could have a name similar to that of someone who makes bad life choices, such as His Dudeness … Duder … or El Duderino, if, you know, you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Yeah well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man...


Quote:
Did your dudeness put his dudeness' SSN on the form?
No in fact the guy filling out my form told me I should have, after the fact...

Walter and his 1911:

http://youtu.be/8BdT5mFAk-Y
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:43 PM   #8
laytonj1
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Did your dudeness put his dudeness' SSN on the form?
I've never put my SSN on the 4473 and never been delayed...

Jim
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:51 PM   #9
Glock Guy
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My wife was delayed for 4 days with zero criminal record. It's no big deal but of course you know this as long as you have no tickets you didn't pay or prior record. I've bought to guns since I got my ccw permit in and out in 15 mins. It was worth it to me.
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Old May 4, 2012, 09:57 PM   #10
JWT
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In AZ you have to fill out the paperwork if you have a concealed carry permit but the FFL does not have to call in for approval to sell.
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Old May 5, 2012, 12:26 AM   #11
golfnutrlv
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Take it from someone who worked in the industry. It happens. Most of the time, its a name/ similar birth date issue. That, or someone with your name, similar info is on the radar...or has never bought a gun before.

I've never been delayed, but don't worry about it. If you get delayed in the future, ask your ffl for a upin form. This should stop the delays.

As others have mentioned, ssn helps. Also, the ffl is allowed to transfer the firearm after 5 business days (if I remember right) unless they are told denied.
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Old May 5, 2012, 05:21 AM   #12
1911Alaska
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I love Alaska I can go in and buy a gun, a quick call to the the local PD and I am good to go within 5-10 minutes max . I would never wanna live anywhere else, to many rules and restrictions
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Old May 5, 2012, 06:11 AM   #13
Sparks1957
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Quote:
As others have mentioned, ssn helps. Also, the ffl is allowed to transfer the firearm after 5 business days (if I remember right) unless they are told denied
SSN speeds things up, especially if you have a name shared with lots of other people.

It's 3 business days, then the FFL can transfer after the delay.
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Old May 5, 2012, 08:44 AM   #14
mehavey
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Quote:
SSN speeds things up, especially if you have a name shared with lots of other people.
Roger that. "Dude" is a very common name.

Security Clearance (unless lost for cause) has never been anything but a plus factor. And since "they" have
already got your SSN for any number of reasons in any number of places over any number of years, not putting
it on the form simply loads the dice in favor of some form your name being on someone's gray list.
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Old May 5, 2012, 09:15 AM   #15
Shadi Khalil
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I always put my SSN# on the form and I've never waited longer than a few minutes.
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Old May 5, 2012, 11:28 AM   #16
Skans
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If you haven't been denied by the third day, it more or less automatically approves the transfer. Or so I'm told.
It's not an approval, just not a denial. It permits the FFL to release the gun to the purchaser without having any problem with BATFE or law enforcement. However, the investigation could still be continuing, and if anything turns up that would prohibit you from having the gun, the police can come out to your house and require that you turn it over to them.
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Old May 5, 2012, 11:48 AM   #17
musher
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I love Alaska I can go in and buy a gun, a quick call to the the local PD and I am good to go within 5-10 minutes max . I would never wanna live anywhere else, to many rules and restrictions
Clearly you haven't purchased a gun in Alaska from a dealer, or you haven't understood what was going on when you did.

These "rules and restrictions" everyone is discussing, apply in Alaska as well.
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Old May 5, 2012, 08:19 PM   #18
dogtown tom
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Quote:
1911Alaska I love Alaska I can go in and buy a gun, a quick call to the the local PD and I am good to go within 5-10 minutes max . I would never wanna live anywhere else, to many rules and restrictions
Uh.......they ain't calling the local PD. Alaska Brady checks are run by the FBI NICS....not your local PD.
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Old May 5, 2012, 11:26 PM   #19
MLeake
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The theory I have heard with regard to security clearances has to do with open investigations for initial clearance or periodic review - IE, the problem (theoretically) is the open investigation, not the clearance.

I have not had the problem, first hand.
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Old May 6, 2012, 02:20 AM   #20
sonick808
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I have an AZ CCW. They do not call NICS when i purchase guns when i present my CCW. I fill out the 4473, show my CCW, they note it wherever they do on the form, and I pay and leave. No more NICS. Saves a lot of time and hassle.

Get your AZ CCW, it's worth it.
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Old May 6, 2012, 02:27 AM   #21
Young.Gun.612
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Theres been numerous posts regarding delays and security clearance. Someone else who has inside knowledge please chime in here, but from what I've heard the NICS doesn't have access to whatever high level security clearance you may have, so I don't think that has anything to do with it.

At the end of the day, I think its just an issue of similar name/ssn, or its a first purchase. My first transfer was delayed, but every one since then has been approved almost immediately, and my father and I share a first and last name. (Him with a felony conviction and me without)
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Old May 6, 2012, 04:07 AM   #22
1911Alaska
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"Clearly you haven't purchased a gun in Alaska from a dealer, or you haven't understood what was going on when you did"
Your name is musher. So I am going to ASSUME you are from Alaska. I will just say this, obviously you have not bought a gun in AK because if you had you would know that its takes 10 minutes AT MOST. I have bought multiple guns from DEALERS and it has never taken for than 10 minutes. Maybe the same rules and regulations are here, but I have never heard of anyone with a CLEAN record taking any more than 1 hour to get a gun.

"Uh.......they ain't calling the local PD. Alaska Brady checks are run by the FBI NICS....not your local PD."
No sir. IF you are in Anchorage they call APD, if you are anywhere else they call the local state trooper station. I have friends with APD and family with the Alaska State Troopers.
http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/forum/...9/a_brady.html
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Old May 6, 2012, 07:37 AM   #23
thallub
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According to the BATFE, Alaska folks with CCW permits are exempt from NICS.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/brady-law/permit-chart.html
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Old May 6, 2012, 03:44 PM   #24
dogtown tom
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1911Alaska No sir. IF you are in Anchorage they call APD, if you are anywhere else they call the local state trooper station. I have friends with APD and family with the Alaska State Troopers.
http://justice.uaa.alaska.edu/forum/...9/a_brady.html
Someone is pullining your leg or they are completely ignorant of how the Brady law is implemented in Alaska.

Linking to a thirteen year old law student term paper? Heck, that paper makes no mention of NICS...........because it was written BEFORE FBI NICS was established in late 1998.

Feel free to call your local gun dealer and ask him who he calls. If he isn't calling the FBI NICS he isnt going to be in business very long.
If you still doubt what I've written, here it is straight from ATF:
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/19...brady-law.html

Quote:
Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Assistant Director
Washington, DC 20226

October 30, 1998

Open Letter to All Alaska Federal Firearms Licensees
Permanent Provisions of the Brady Law
The purpose of this letter is to advise you of your responsibilities under the permanent provisions of the Brady law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(t). On November 30, 1998, the interim provisions of the Brady law will cease to apply, and the permanent provisions of the Brady law will take effect.

The permanent provisions of the Brady law provide for the establishment of a national instant criminal background check system (NICS) that licensees must contact before transferring any firearm to unlicensed individuals. While the interim provisions apply only to handguns, the permanent provisions of Brady will apply to all firearms. In addition, under permanent Brady there will no longer be an exemption for the redemption of a firearm from pawn.

Notification from the Attorney General
On October 30, 1998, the Department of Justice published a final rule in the Federal Register, announcing the establishment of the NICS as of October 31, 1998. Accordingly, licensees will be required to comply with permanent Brady as of November 30, 1998. Copies of the Justice Department’s final rule are available on DOJ’s Home Page on the Internet at http://www.fbi.gov/programs/nics/index.htm and DOJ is mailing copies of the final rule to licensees.

Initiation of NICS Checks
To request a background check for any firearm transaction you must contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s NICS Operations Center by dialing 1-877-FBI-NICS (1-877-324-6427). Your call will be answered by an automated menu that allows you to select from several customer services including initiating a NICS background check.

Transfers Subject to NICS Check Requirement
As of November 30, 1998, you will be required to initiate a NICS check prior to transferring a firearm to anyone who is not a licensee. The following steps must be followed prior to transferring a firearm:

1.Have the transferee complete and sign ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record.
2.Verify the identity of the transferee through a Government-issued photo identification (for example, a driver’s license).
3.Contact NICS. You will get either a “proceed,” “denied” or “delayed” response from the system. If you get a “delayed” response and there is no additional response from the system, you may transfer the firearm after three business days have elapsed. Of course, you must still comply with any waiting period requirements under State law.
4.If you have initiated a NICS check for a proposed firearms transaction, but the transfer of the firearm is not completed, you must retain the Form 4473 in your records for a period of not less than 5 years. If the transfer is completed, the Form 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years.
Alternatives to a NICS Check
The Brady law provides that certain permits may qualify as alternatives to a NICS check. The concealed weapons permit issued in your State qualified as an alternative to a background check under the interim provisions of Brady and will continue to qualify as an alternative to the NICS check required by permanent Brady. Of course all such transactions must still comply with State law.

If you transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person pursuant to this permit alternative, you must comply with the following requirements:

1.Have the transferee complete and sign ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record.
2.Verify the identity of the transferee through a Government-issued photo identification (for example, a driver’s license).
3.Verify that the permit was issued within the past 5 years by the State in which the transfer is to occur, and that the permit has not expired under State law.
4.Either retain a copy of the transferee’s permit and attach it to the Form 4473, or record on the Form 4473 any identifying number from the permit, the date of issuance, and the expiration date of the permit.
Final Regulations and Forms 4473
On October 29, 1998, ATF published final regulations implementing the permanent provisions of the Brady law. ATF has also modified ATF Form 4473, Firearms Transaction Record, to reflect the changes in the background check system. A copy of these regulations and a small supply of Forms 4473 will be mailed to each licensee under separate cover before November 30, 1998.

Questions
If you have any questions, please contact your local ATF office. Questions regarding NICS operational issues should be directed to the FBI at 1-877-444-6427.

Jimmy Wooten
Assistant Director
Firearms, Explosives and Arson



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Old May 6, 2012, 05:21 PM   #25
MLeake
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I have had a carry permit for years. It eliminated waiting periods in FL, then GA, and now MO. I can buy and take home same day.

However, in all those states, the dealer still had to make the phone call.
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