The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Forum Support > Site Questions and Tech Support (NO FIREARMS QUESTIONS)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old May 1, 2012, 11:33 AM   #26
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"with the general and semi auto forums, it seem almost as two semi auto forums."

It's only been a couple of days. Let's let things settle down a little and I'm sure that will change.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 01:44 PM   #27
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
You're right we will probly get used to it
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 03:31 PM   #28
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,935
As I write this, according to the statistics on the main forums page, the following numbers of people are viewing the rifle and handgun forums:

General Handgun: 88
Revolver: 116
Semi-automatic: 349

General Rifle: 299
Bolt, etc.: 6
Semi-automatic: 8

This suggests to me that the split makes sense for handguns, where large numbers of people seem to be specifically interested in one or the other action type. But in the rifle forums, where almost all the interest seems to be in general topics -- I don't see the point of the division.

And anyway, I liked the old, inclusive forum better. I'm less interested in semi-automatic rifles, so I'm tending to skip over that forum -- but under the old format, I'd sometimes open such a thread and learn something I hadn't known. Now I have to open that forum page and scan a whole separate list, just on the off-chance something might catch my eye...

Put back, say I.
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 04:33 PM   #29
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
Those huge disparities in viewers for a forum?

Most of those "viewing" the forum are automated processes from Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the like.

They're pulling information for search engines.

They're not humans.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 06:50 PM   #30
stu925
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 945
Personally I liked it better the old way also. Doesn't mean the old way was better, it's just that I liked being able to find any rifle related material in one place. I'm sure in time we'll all get used to the new layout as I'm sure the handgunners had to do when they split that section.

Stu
stu925 is offline  
Old May 1, 2012, 11:37 PM   #31
Fishbed77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2010
Posts: 2,766
Please merge the rifle forums back together.

It's nice to just be able to read though the rifle posts without having to jump through 2 different forums. Especially when you aren't looking for something in particular, but are just browsing to expand your knowledge.
Fishbed77 is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 10:56 AM   #32
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 3,161
Quote:
We're not going backwards any time soon.
Based on that It seems pretty much a done deal to me.
No point in commenting further as it is their forum & we're just guests so its their site their rules.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 11:19 AM   #33
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"Based on that It seems pretty much a done deal to me." -- WRONG!



Wogpotter,

My post, from which you picked a single sentence upon which to turn your entire focus, is not saying that the rifle forums are a done deal.

The post discusses the rational behind the handgun forums being split and the reason for taking the stance that we do in closing threads that are posted in the wrong forum as a means of addressing a previous poster's comment.

That post is NOT, in any way, shape, or form, telling people that the partitioned rifle forum is here to stay.

Please disabuse yourself of that notion, because it is absolutely 100% incorrect.

Just about any change to TFL comes with a "trial period" in which staff keeps track of user acceptance and feedback.

Right now, all we are asking for is that people DON'T reflexively scream "OH GODS WE HATES IT, OUR PRECIOUS HAS CHANGED WE HATES IT WE HATES IT!"

Give it a chance, work with it for awhile. If member consensus is negative enough, it could very well be changed back to a single forum.

But staff is NOT, based on the short-term impressions of what, about 20 members who have posted here, going to do a 180 reversal on something that has been rolled out for less than a damned week.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 11:21 AM   #34
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,537
Do not equate that statement with "done deal". The key words in Mike's statement are "any time soon". We do want to give it a try for a while, but to go back to the old way immediately when we've only heard from a handful of members would be just as irresponsible as going forward with a change when asked to do so from only a handful. We got a lot of requests to breakout the rifles forums from many members over the years.

Nothing here at TFL is set in stone.

[Added]
Mike and I were obviously simulposting, and so the message is now doubly clear.
Mal H is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 12:10 PM   #35
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
Those huge disparities in viewers for a forum?

Most of those "viewing" the forum are automated processes from Google, Bing, Yahoo, and the like.

They're pulling information for search engines.

They're not humans.
Huh.

The discrepancies in those numbers are quite consistent, over time. For example, there always seem to be about 10 times the "viewers" in the semi-automatic handgun forum as in Tactics and Training; how curious that bots find semi-automatic pistols so very interesting.

One wonders why that would be so, if it's not somehow correlated with the interests of the "do we not bleed?" crowd...
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 12:24 PM   #36
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"The discrepancies in those numbers are quite consistent, over time."

So, how much time are you observing?

The simple fact that they are consistent is a pretty solid indication that these are, in fact, regularly scheduled crawlers and not humans. Human patterns would tend to vary considerably.

They will target the forums that are most active.

At least that's how I understand them to work.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 01:15 PM   #37
Vanya
Staff
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
Posts: 3,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Irwin
So, how much time are you observing?
At least a couple of years...

[DIGRESSION]I started noticing those numbers, on the perhaps naive assumption that they reflected visits by actual humans, because I'm interested in the way that many people find hardware an end in itself: guns, woodworking equipment, whatever, are more interesting to them than the uses to which those things are put.

Even if you look at a different measure -- numbers of threads over time -- there's way more activity in the various hardware forums than in forums like Tactics and Training or Lock and Load, which tend to be more, um, process-oriented than stuff-oriented. Far more people have "what gun?" questions than have "how do I shoot better?" questions. Granted that the latter also show up in what I'm calling "hardware" forums -- there are still way more threads focused on which gun, ammo, or accessory is best for a particular purpose. (It's encouraging, though, that much of the time some Wise One jumps in and says "Duh! The one you shoot best," or "Don't accessorize it, just go shoot the heck out of it.")[/DIGRESSION]

Quote:
They will target the forums that are most active.
So perhaps they are a valid measure of the relative popularity of those forums...
__________________
"Once the writer in every individual comes to life (and that time is not far off), we are in for an age of universal deafness and lack of understanding."
(Milan Kundera, Book of Laughter and Forgetting, 1980)
Vanya is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 02:39 PM   #38
Capt Charlie
Staff
 
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanya
As I write this, according to the statistics on the main forums page, the following numbers of people are viewing the rifle and handgun forums:

General Handgun: 88
Revolver: 116
Semi-automatic: 349

General Rifle: 299
Bolt, etc.: 6
Semi-automatic: 8
I think the lack of viewers in Bolt, etc. and Semi-autos is due to the lack of posts. Note that General has over 56,000 posts, while Bolts, etc. has only 85 and semi's 112 (as of this post).

Given a little time, I believe you'll see that, as the number of posts increases, so will the number of viewers. I think it's worthwhile to give it a chance to build up steam.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do.

--Capt. Charlie
Capt Charlie is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 05:34 PM   #39
seanc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 1998
Posts: 185
I liked the mix. I own a mix and sometimes, it's nice when a post catches your eye that you wouldn't normally read. I kind of liked the 'one stop shopping' for rifles.
seanc is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 07:43 PM   #40
rickyrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Location: Mesquite Jungle Desert, West Texas, USA
Posts: 2,467
I still like the old way better.

But, what Mike days has some credence. I think back a few years, even before I became a member, I Googled different things and basically led to this forum and others. Since most of the older posts still reside in the general forum, then most of the Google searches and others are gonna lead to the general forum. That's the same way the 10 year old threads get resurrected.
__________________
Navin R. Johnson: "He hates these cans!!!! Stay away from the cans!!!!"
rickyrick is offline  
Old May 2, 2012, 08:19 PM   #41
Mal H
Staff
 
Join Date: March 20, 1999
Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia
Posts: 14,537
Rickyrick hit it on the nose concerning the numbers viewing the individual forums. At this time the numbers viewing are: Currently Active Users: 1887 (221 members and 1666 guests)

Of that 1666 guests a high percentage got here by following links from Google, Yahoo!, etc. Of the ones who followed a link to a rifle topic, almost all of them are going to be in the general rifle forum.

It doesn't matter what the numbers are anyway. We will not be basing a decision based in any way on viewer counts in the various forums.
Mal H is offline  
Old May 3, 2012, 06:29 AM   #42
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
"At least a couple of years..."

I've got you by almost a decade.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old May 3, 2012, 06:53 AM   #43
semi_problomatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 27, 2009
Location: Ft. Polk
Posts: 874
I've recently seen a new problem. People ask about a scope for xxx rifle in general, and it gets moved to whatever action type that rifle is. Should scope questions either be left in general or moved to the gear section? I'm sure most the problems will get ironed out once everyone gets adjusted to the new way and a SOP gets set up.

And I take back my vote for the old way, at least if someone ask about an AR they wont get 4 "not another AR post!"
__________________
Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...
semi_problomatic is offline  
Old May 3, 2012, 08:33 AM   #44
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 36,074
That's one of the things that we're trying to iron out, Semi. By the way, its not just a question in the rifle forums, either, we struggle with the same issue in the handgun forums.

We'll get there!

OK, that said....

We've had a lot of good feedback and discussion in this thread so far, and I want to thank everyone for it on behalf of all of the mods.

Right now it looks like there's overwhelming desire to return to the old forums.

But, I truly believe that at THIS time that's something of a mirage. People simply don't have enough time with the new format. As I noted above, we truly want feedback based on use, not a reflexive reaction to change (I'm VERY much a change is BAD BAD BAD! kind of person, so I can relate).

So, here's what's going to happen right now....

1. I'm going to close this thread. It's allowed everyone to get their initial thoughts about the new rifle forums layout (and more than a few of mine about the handgun forums layout!) off their chests.

2. Any new threads that pop up will be closed and the posters directed to read this thread.

3. There's going to be a trial period for the new format. We've not decided how long that's going to be yet, but it will be more than a few days. During that time staff is going to work on getting things ironed out with where posts will go when they're talking about gear and not just a rifle, etc.

4. At some point we'll post a poll open to all TFL members to get their feedback on whether the new forum arrangement works, or whether it should be reverted back to one big rifles forum.


So, bear with us, folks.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12963 seconds with 9 queries