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Old April 19, 2012, 10:49 PM   #26
tahunua001
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I would second that. my SMLE is by far my favorite rifle. I bought about 2400 rounds of ammo(a lifetime supply for me out of a bolt gun) out of a friends basement for a song so I have no idea of current pricing or availability of 303 brit but I can say that I am having a rough time deciding whether I want to take it out for blackbear this year or let one of my newer rifles have all the fun.

dead accurate, dead reliable, super fun to shoot and can drop anything short of a bison in north america.
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Old April 20, 2012, 02:52 AM   #27
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ive had a nagant, still do, but i wouldnt rely on it for long term... if you cant make ammo for that thing then youre restricted to surplus... i just havent been able to find quality ammo in stores around here for it.. so id probably stick to a more common caliber... .223 is a bit lacking, so id probably step it up to a .308 or .30-06 either in a bolt gun (remington 700 or m1903 springfield).. or more likely i seem to be settling more on the garand/M1A idea... probably more so on the garand since i really do like the en block clips for it... so much lighter and easier to pack ammo with than box magazines

ive thought about a mini-14 as well, would be more interested if i could find one in 6.8mm which seems to be a growing favorite for an all-purpose round, am i wrong?...

so ill probably go garand, or take a remington 700 and make a WWII style stock for it myself to give it an old utilitarian look... but if i could be absolutely convinced that 6.8SPC or .300 blackout had a legit future in shorter action rifles, i would gladly convert a mini-14

nothing wrong with lee enfields.. they are absolutely beautiful, smooth... one of the best bolt actions out there... but im patriotic enough to take a springfield or krag rifle instead
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Old April 20, 2012, 03:15 AM   #28
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you know.. i may consider 45-70 or .30-30 depending... i like the old winchesters and marlins.... how straight of a trajectory do you get when using the pointed flex tip bullets in 45-70? seems it would greatly improve the aerodnamics of the bullet, causing it to drop less and shoot straighter downrange, am i wrong to assume that?
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Old April 20, 2012, 07:05 AM   #29
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currently.. im trying to see if its possible to get 9x25 dillon in a carbine of some sort.. close to 900fpe at the muzzle from a pistol, which is REALLY hot.. if it could be fitted with a pointed bullet and chambered in a carbine youd have something that would perform really close to 5.56mm, but be so much lighter to carry, and make a perfect outdoor rifle too
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Old April 20, 2012, 09:04 AM   #30
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my brother in law is always playing around with goofy loads for his 45-70. so far he swears by the ballistic tips.

my best friend hunts with a nice 30-30 lever gun and I've witnessed him taking a 200 pound whitetail at over 200 yards(a shot the ballistics experts here say is impossible), he shot it twice but once we got to field dressing him it was obvious that the second shot was not necessary. so I would say if he can land 2 shots on a moving target at 200 yards then a 30-30 would also make a good anti badguy/homedefense/hunting rifle.

as for 30-06, I have a low serial m1903(yes I know, taboo to shoot but I do it anyway). it is in beautiful condition and works like a dream. if you can get one with an original military stock you have an entire cleaning kit stuffed inside the stock through a hinged opening in the buttplate. the absorb recoil great and now that I've found out how the sight post works it is pretty darn accurate for a rifle that's seen 2 world wars and is older than my grandparents. it's not really the most simple design to figure out and to tell the truth I see no practical purpose in some of the features on it but it does the trick, I'm having trouble deciding whether to take the 1903 or my enfield out for bear this spring.

as for 308, I have little personal experience with it, I've shot it a few times and thought that it was pretty similar to a 30-30 in terms of recoil and accuracy at 100 yards. never did shoot beyond that but I'll guarantee for hunting application that it will kill elk and anything smaller.
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Old April 20, 2012, 09:22 AM   #31
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the .308 is just a shorter, but higher pressured cartridge with ballistics the same as a .30-06, was just to get the same performance from a physically smaller cartridge (same way a 9mm equals the energy of a 45acp, while being smaller)...

as for military surplus rifles, i would prefer a project, so a barreled action is all i would require to install new springs, refinish, maybe replace a couple parts here and there... and with my years of carving wood by hand i would have absolutely no problem carving a new, military style stock
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Old April 21, 2012, 12:21 AM   #32
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seriously though.. is it an odd thing that i think full auto is a waste, and dont like vertical pistol grips and telescoping stocks?
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Old April 21, 2012, 12:40 PM   #33
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is it an odd thing that i think full auto is a waste, and dont like vertical pistol grips and telescoping stocks?
Not odd at all. There are many out there who like the tactical rifles, but also a lot who prefer more traditional styles. I personally don't care for most of the tactical style rifles, either. The one exception, for me, is the Beretta CX4. I think it looks pretty darn nice, though their price pretty much dictates that I will never have one. Beyond that, I will take a bolt or lever gun over an AR every time. It all comes down to personal preference.
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Old April 21, 2012, 05:21 PM   #34
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not to hijack the thread but I agree to a certain degree. I love nothing more than a good bolt action and thumbhole stocks are very nice and comfortable for me but they tend to be prohibitive if I want to loan it out to a friend or family member since a surprising number of my gun buddies shoot left handed. the telescoping stocks are good if a shorter person is behind it and vertical pristol grips are fully ambidextrous.

however I would never slap a set of the tacticool furniture on a M1 or SKS even if I had the parts laying around.
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Old April 21, 2012, 11:07 PM   #35
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If you are thinking about a lever action then you may want to consider a Browning BLR since is has a detachable magazine which allows for shooting more aerodynamic bullets of any kind and is available in many calibers. I currently own one (243win) and have owned several and they were all quite accurate. Browning also chambers the BLR in 450 Marlin With that being said, I am most certainly not trying to belittle the Marlin 336's or Winchester 94's.

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Old April 22, 2012, 06:53 AM   #36
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if i were to consider a bolt action, it would have to be an older military style.. probably springfield 1903... for lever actions though i almost definitely go winchester 92 for pistol caliber, or one in 45-70
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Old April 22, 2012, 10:58 AM   #37
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im looking to spend some money ive saved on a new rifle, partially from neccessity (hunting) and partially from paranoia (the world seems to be getting worse daily)... so im looking to buy a general purpose rifle, useful for shtf scenarios, survival scenarios, or general outdoor and recreational use...

but there is some criteria ive settled on

-id like reliability and accuracy
-preferably a full length stock vs seperate furniture
-would like something with more downrange energy than .223, but most .223 rifles can be converted to 6.5 or 6.8, etc, so ill leave that open
-bolt actions are OK
-semis are OK
-have owned, and learned that i do not like AK or SKS
-delayed blowback, long-stroke gas piston, or bolt action is what id prefer
I would agree with some of your criteria but think some of it you should throw out the window, KISS the whole process. I'd loose the full stock option and forget 6.5 and 6.8 options as well they don't do anything for you. For me they would be ammunition availability, simplicity/reliability, and optics as well as iron sights.

1. Most important ammunition availability. .223, .308, and .30-06 are the most available and commonly found cartridges in the United States. LE and Military commonly use the .223 and .308 and these are my fist choices in chamberings, and because of the popularity for hunting the .30-06 would be third. Forget about 7.62X54, 7.62X39 and .303 they just aren't as available as the previous three at every place that sells ammunition. Plus if you are going to keep componets on hand to reload as well, you have far more options in .224 and .308 bullets. And forget about changing the .223 rifle to a 6.8 or 6.5 caliber as it wouldn't be practical in your "paranoia (the world seems to be getting worse daily)... so im looking to buy a general purpose rifle, useful for shtf scenarios, survival scenarios" the .223 will work.

2. Simple rifles that are capable of 1-2 MOA accuracy with a wide variety of ammunition, that are easy to repair, field strip/clean and proven reliable designs. Most simple would be a bolt action hunting rifle like a sporter M98 or clone (commercial Mauser, M70 Pre-64/Classic, FN SPR/PBR, and Ruger M77). Keep the simple two stage military trigger, don't add an enclosed trigger that could gum or freeze up. Add a spare firing pin and spring kit and you have all the parts you need to fix the action, plus it doesn't take up much room. The bolt action will be the lightest to carry as long as your not trying to lug around a Varmint/Tactical rifle.

First choice semi-auto and one you have to consider is the AR style of rifles because of their simplicity and parts availability. M1A style rifles would be next including the Mini-14. High capacity magazines for the AR style rifles are easier to find than the ones for the Mini.

The M1 Garand you like would be my last choice because the En-Bloc system is inferior to the detachable magazines of the AR or M1A style rifles. Plus there is factory ammunition out there that could possibly put it out of operation since it is too high of pressure for the M1 to handle. It is the heaviest to carry of all the rifles as well. Then there is the ability to add optics to them easily, not many M1's have this capability compared to the other styles of rifles I mentioned.

3. The addition of optics to your rifle choices. I know you said you didn't want optics but if they increase your chances of making a first shot count why not add them? Keep the optics simple as well like a fixed 4 or 6 power scope. Make sure it is quick detachable and the mounts, and your bases don't interfere with your back up sights when you have the scope removed. Make sure whatever optics you choose they are known to be rugged and reliable. I know most hunting rifles don't come with iron sights but any competent gunsmith can add a set to your rifle and I think you could still come in inside your budget.
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Old April 23, 2012, 02:08 AM   #38
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enblock is not inferior... significantly less weight than a magazine, no springs to deal with, and it ejects itself... the only limiting factor is capacity...

anyway, what kind of accuracy could one expect from an 1894 winchester, 1886 winchester, the browning, or any of the marlins?... just kind of curious if they really are capable of bolt-action accuracy or not.. 1" groups at 100 would be nice
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Old April 23, 2012, 02:35 AM   #39
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The Curcuit judge revolver rifle is fairly lightweight, it fires either the .45lc or .410 bore cartridges, and the operating mechanism is the same as any DA/SA revolver.

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Old April 23, 2012, 08:43 AM   #40
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enblock is not inferior... significantly less weight than a magazine, no springs to deal with, and it ejects itself... the only limiting factor is capacity
Can you swap out a half empty en-bloc as easily as a detachable magazine? It was a great system at the time and the M1 is an awesome rifle. There are tradeoffs that the OP is gong to have to weigh to figure out what will fill his needs. There are just better choices out there than the M1 if you stick to the OP's scenario IMO.
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Old April 23, 2012, 12:26 PM   #41
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yes you can swap out a half empty enblock.. theres a button you press that pops the mag out.. or you can top it off with a couple lose rounds
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Old April 23, 2012, 01:06 PM   #42
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if i were to go with a bolt action... what would be the best new action to build a custom rifle from?
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Old April 23, 2012, 02:24 PM   #43
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You missed the "as easily " part. I know you can top off or remove a partially empty en-bloc, but I still say you can't do it as quick, easy or as efficient as a detachable magazine. YMMV but I find it is easier to manipulate an M1A or AR than an M1.
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Old April 23, 2012, 02:48 PM   #44
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probably a howa, weatherby vanguards are pretty much just rebranded howas but cheaper so either of those would be a good platform to build from. remington 700s are really good too but from what I understand they get to be a pain in the pooper when you start getting into rebarreling them and such
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Old April 23, 2012, 06:00 PM   #45
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probably a howa, weatherby vanguards are pretty much just rebranded howas but cheaper so either of those would be a good platform to build from. remington 700s are really good too but from what I understand they get to be a pain in the pooper when you start getting into rebarreling them and such
More gunsmiths will rebarrel a M700 easier than a Howa/Vanguard, and the Rem 700 is the most cloned action of any out there. Remington's are great actions to build off of by I still stand by my previous post on reliable bolt actions. I'd build one off of a M98 Mauser or commercial Mauser, Ruger M77, or Pre-64 or Classic M70 Winchester
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Old April 24, 2012, 10:41 AM   #46
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does anyone make a new m98 mauser action anymore?.. if so, who?..but... i would like to stick with american made products only if i can... i like the ruger as well, specially the scout model, would it be possible to find a stripped receiver/bolt for a project, or would i have to buy a complete rifle?
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Old April 24, 2012, 12:09 PM   #47
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Zastava still makes a 98 action that is affordable, but a little roughly finished. Granite Mountain and Saterlee Arms make custom 98 actions but your budget won't cover the cost of the action. Then you have Ruger M77 and Winchester M70 that are similar to a 98 Mauser. Montana Rifle Co makes a custom action similar to the M70 but again you'll blow your total budget just buying the action. I don't personally have any experience with the custom actions mentioned, nor Kimberly rifles which again is similar to the M70.

Check online auctions like gunbroker and you might be able to find a receiver or barreled action. More than likely it will be about the same cost in the long run to buy a complete rifle.
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Old April 24, 2012, 01:14 PM   #48
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after looking at my options.. im liking the idea of the "scout" rifle... a short, open sighted bolt action fed with stripper clips or a box magazine... wouldnt mind basing it off a mauser or remington 700 action... but these stripped receivers are just way overpriced... umm, i dont really want to go with an older military action because it seems theyre longer actions, and id like to go with a short action... i can purchase M1903 springfield blueprints online (never been able to find 98 mauser prints)...

if i could find large ring mauser prints id prefer to go that route... modify the plans for a "short action" length for .308... maybe see if i can fit a fixed 10 round double stack mag... and carve the stock myself... that would be a fun project.. end result would be a "scout" type rifle...

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Old April 24, 2012, 05:02 PM   #49
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Just buy the Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle you've been looking at and save your money left over for ammunition, spare magazines and optics. You'll probably have enough money left from your budget to get a good bi-pod and shooting sling to go along with the rifle. With a retail price about half of your budget you can pick up some pretty nice accessories to go with the rifle.
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Old April 25, 2012, 07:52 PM   #50
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If I were looking for an all around general purpose rifle, I'd look long and hard at the Ruger Gunsite rifle. I think I'd put the scope in the standard location instead of the scout location, but that's just me.

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