40 cal load

garryc · April 13, 2012, 12:31 PM

170 grain lee cast bullet. The bullet is a Truncted cone regular bullet and is lubed with Lee Liquid ALOX and a dusting of ground mica. 5.5 grains of Bullseye or 6 grains of AA#5? Any differance? The gun is an XD sub compact 40 S+W.

Axelwik · April 13, 2012, 02:36 PM

I wouldn't go that high with the Bullseye as a starting load. Also check the actual weight of your Lee cast bullets. My truncated cone bullets from Lee molds cast a little heavy - 175 grain casts as 180.

noylj · April 13, 2012, 10:59 PM

The basic rules of reloading are:
• refer to a couple of manuals to determine starting load and max load
• always start with lowest starting load

I show 4.0gn Bullseye as starting load and 5.0gn as max charge for 170-175gn lead bullets. 5.5gn is just a bit high, in my opinion.
I show 5.5gn AA5 as starting load and 6.1gn as lowest max load. 6.0gn is a load to work up to. It "probably" would be perfectly fine, but then again, maybe it won't be...

garryc · April 14, 2012, 12:44 AM

I always used Bullseye in 38 special and 45 ACP, not in rounds of the pressure level of the 40 S+W. Understanding the load development, how does Bullseye act at those higher pressures? Does it burn cleaner?

BDS-THR · April 14, 2012, 04:43 AM

2004 Alliant load data shows 4.5 gr as max for 180 gr lead bullet and 4.9 gr as max even for the lighter 155 gr lead bullet.

Lyman #49 lists 175 gr lead bullet at 1.125" OAL with max of 5.1 gr of Bullseye and 1.100" OAL with 5.0 gr.

Personally, I would recommend slower burn rate powders than W231/HP-38 for 40S&W.

garryc · April 14, 2012, 10:08 AM

Not getting locked into the numbers, which were kind of off the top of my head and I set the measure while actually looking at the books, I have two powders. One is bullseye, a fast burning flake. The other is AA#5, a spherical. Which is better in the 40S+W? What I'm asking really is how clean they burn at that pressure level? Bullseye tends to be a little dirty at low pressures, and I have never used it at high pressures.

Fine accuracy isn't a requirement here. Probably never will the load be fired beyond 12 yards. All combat shooting, drills from concealment and while moving. Important is the condition of the case after it's fired. Since I'm not in a static position, dirty brass can be hard to find. I target shoot with the 1911's and the brass can be some dirty, but it falls in one location.

My carry load in the 40 is Federal 180 grain HST's, and they are accurate.

overkill0084 · April 14, 2012, 10:53 AM

I've been using 6.0gr of AA#5 w/ 180 gr cast bullets for some time, in the same pistol. Never any problems. You may be surprised by your XD40SC. Mine has definite preferences with ammo. With loads it likes, it's surprisingly accurate.
I would think that Bullseye at 40 S&W pressures would be clean enough for most people. Cast bullets will be plenty grungy anyway, regardless of powder.

BDS-THR · April 14, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garryc

bullseye ... AA#5. Which is better in the 40S+W? What I'm asking really is how clean they burn at that pressure level? Bullseye tends to be a little dirty at low pressures, and I have never used it at high pressures.

I have tested Bullseye/Promo/Clays/Titegroup/Green Dot/WST/N320/W231/HP-38/Unique/Universal/PowerPistol/WSF/HS-6/AutoComp for 40S&W with jacketed/plated/lead bullets and IMO consider Bullseye recoil to be too snappy. Slower burn rate powders than W231/HP-38 produced less snappy recoil and reduced gas cutting/leading. I have not used AA #5, but many reported good results with the powder and 40S&W.

Quote:

Fine accuracy isn't a requirement here. Probably never will the load be fired beyond 12 yards. All combat shooting, drills from concealment and while moving. Important is the condition of the case after it's fired. Since I'm not in a static position, dirty brass can be hard to find.

I try to come close in felt recoil/POA/POI of my carry factory ammo with my reloads and even with lead reloads, I can come close enough. I also do my "combat distance" drills at 7-10-15 yards and I can get very accurate and fairly clean lead loads. Typically, powder burns cleaner as chamber pressure increases from start charges and you may need to do some range tests to compare which loads produce a nice balance between accuracy, cleaner burning and come close to your carry ammo's felt recoil/POA/POI for comparable range practice.

If you have not tried, I highly recommend W231/HP-38 at mid-to-high range load data. It is very accurate, particularly with 180 gr bullet even with starting charges and at high range load data, comes close enough to the felt recoil/POA/POI for my carry ammo. At mid-to-high range load data, it also burns fairly clean.

Stick_man · April 14, 2012, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Cast bullets will be plenty grungy anyway, regardless of powder.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with this statement. I have found cast bullets to be no worse than most factory jacketed rounds if you have a proper fitting bullet with a good lube. Use some lube with some Carnuba Wax in it and you will be left with a shiny clean barrell. If you match the alloy to the pressure and the bullet diameter to bore groove diameter + .001 you won't have any problems at all (in probably 99% of all cases).

An undersized bullet or an improper lube can leave your barrell dirty in a matter of just a few rounds. The right bullet and lube and you will maintain great performance and conditions for several hundred rounds.

garryc · April 15, 2012, 12:07 AM

I started the loads. I went with 5.7 grains of AA#5 which is half way in the Accurate data. The bullets are Lee and come out to 178 grains lubed. They are not tumble lube bullets but I used liquid ALOX. I lubed them and allowed them to dry 24 hours then ran them through the Lee size die. Then I lubed them again and they sat in the open 5 days. They got a good coating of powdered mica before I loaded them. They feel slicker than dog snot.

All the bullets I lube with softer lubes get the powdered mica. That always worked well. The 45 300 grain GC bullets I cast, and the 300 grain GC 44's get lubed with Lyman Moly Lube, then they get the mica. Great combination.

April 13, 2012, 12:31 PM	#1
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,279	40 cal load 170 grain lee cast bullet. The bullet is a Truncted cone regular bullet and is lubed with Lee Liquid ALOX and a dusting of ground mica. 5.5 grains of Bullseye or 6 grains of AA#5? Any differance? The gun is an XD sub compact 40 S+W.

April 14, 2012, 10:53 AM	#7
overkill0084 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Northern, UT Posts: 1,115	I've been using 6.0gr of AA#5 w/ 180 gr cast bullets for some time, in the same pistol. Never any problems. You may be surprised by your XD40SC. Mine has definite preferences with ammo. With loads it likes, it's surprisingly accurate. I would think that Bullseye at 40 S&W pressures would be clean enough for most people. Cast bullets will be plenty grungy anyway, regardless of powder. __________________ Cheers, Greg "We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem." Douglas Adams

April 13, 2012, 02:36 PM	#2
Axelwik Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2012 Location: Land of Enchantment Posts: 203	I wouldn't go that high with the Bullseye as a starting load. Also check the actual weight of your Lee cast bullets. My truncated cone bullets from Lee molds cast a little heavy - 175 grain casts as 180.

April 13, 2012, 10:59 PM	#3
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 396	The basic rules of reloading are: • refer to a couple of manuals to determine starting load and max load • always start with lowest starting load I show 4.0gn Bullseye as starting load and 5.0gn as max charge for 170-175gn lead bullets. 5.5gn is just a bit high, in my opinion. I show 5.5gn AA5 as starting load and 6.1gn as lowest max load. 6.0gn is a load to work up to. It "probably" would be perfectly fine, but then again, maybe it won't be...

April 14, 2012, 12:44 AM	#4
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,279	I always used Bullseye in 38 special and 45 ACP, not in rounds of the pressure level of the 40 S+W. Understanding the load development, how does Bullseye act at those higher pressures? Does it burn cleaner?

April 14, 2012, 10:08 AM	#6
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,279	Not getting locked into the numbers, which were kind of off the top of my head and I set the measure while actually looking at the books, I have two powders. One is bullseye, a fast burning flake. The other is AA#5, a spherical. Which is better in the 40S+W? What I'm asking really is how clean they burn at that pressure level? Bullseye tends to be a little dirty at low pressures, and I have never used it at high pressures. Fine accuracy isn't a requirement here. Probably never will the load be fired beyond 12 yards. All combat shooting, drills from concealment and while moving. Important is the condition of the case after it's fired. Since I'm not in a static position, dirty brass can be hard to find. I target shoot with the 1911's and the brass can be some dirty, but it falls in one location. My carry load in the 40 is Federal 180 grain HST's, and they are accurate.

April 15, 2012, 12:07 AM	#10
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,279	I started the loads. I went with 5.7 grains of AA#5 which is half way in the Accurate data. The bullets are Lee and come out to 178 grains lubed. They are not tumble lube bullets but I used liquid ALOX. I lubed them and allowed them to dry 24 hours then ran them through the Lee size die. Then I lubed them again and they sat in the open 5 days. They got a good coating of powdered mica before I loaded them. They feel slicker than dog snot. All the bullets I lube with softer lubes get the powdered mica. That always worked well. The 45 300 grain GC bullets I cast, and the 300 grain GC 44's get lubed with Lyman Moly Lube, then they get the mica. Great combination.