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Old April 2, 2012, 09:48 AM   #1
kraigwy
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Rem 1100 vs 1187

What's the difference between the Rem 1100 and the 1187.

Yesterday I shot a Falling Plate match where we used shotguns (bird shot) and pistols.

There were several 1187s and the seemed to be jamming a lot.

Years ago, (Mid 70s) I use to shoot a lot of skeet and most people I shot with used 1100s, then never seemed to jam much back them.

Several Benelli's too that were jamming. I'm not shotgunner, I used an old Police 870. Seems like every time I beat someone it was because their auto's jammed. (870s don't jam).

What's the deal?????????
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Old April 2, 2012, 10:10 AM   #2
zippy13
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The 11-87 was supposed to be an improvement over the old 1100. One of the guys on my Skeet squad got one when they first came out. As I recall, the main difference was the mag tube was changed to stainless steel to reduce corrosion and ease cleaning. This was intended to reduce/prevent fouling of the gas works.

I wonder if this was the first outing for the guns in question and they hadn't been cleaned since before the snows. Perhaps it was just a case of gunkitis. An old 1100 shooters trick is to turn the gun end over end, if you don't hear the rings freely sliding on the tube don't complain if it doesn't cycle properly.

Yes, 870 don't typically jamb, but they go bang-clickety-clack-bang instead of bang-bang. When I was an active skeeter there were a few 1100s and no 870s in NSSA events -- the O/Us ruled. Some used the 1100s because of their reduced recoil, but they have been replaced by the newer gas guns.
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Old April 2, 2012, 10:41 AM   #3
joe45c
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also i think the 11-87 was supposed to handle a better range of loads, from field 2-3/4 to 3'mags, but since i have never owened one i don't know if they could do it or not. i think if i remember right they had problems cycling lighter loads.
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Old April 2, 2012, 01:00 PM   #4
BigJimP
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I'm not a Remington fan in general ...( pumps or semi-autos) but the differences between the older 1100's vs the 1187's were mostly in the gas system as I understand it. There are other subtle differences ...in the internal parts - extractors, ejectors, bolts, etc ...that guys who shoot them a lot - could really address.

Most of the older 1100's were chambered for 2 3/4" shells ...although there are some 3" versions out there too ...and I believe all of the 1187's at least in 12ga and 20ga were chambered in 3" ... so when the 1187's came out - the field shooters seemed to like the alledgedly cleaner shooting 1187's ( the gas system changes ) and the bigger chambers.

A lot of the older guys at my gunclub ...have a safe full of 1100's and 1187's ...in 12ga, 20ga, 16ga, 28ga and .410's .../ and they wax poetically about them ...and love em ...and keep buying more of them...

In terms of reliability ...if they are kept clean and properly lubed they're both 100% reliable. If they are not kept clean and properly lubed ...they are both jamomatics.../ and so is virtually any semi-auto shotgun.

If they are kept clean and lubed ...they will both cycle light loads - down to 1150 fps -- and 7/8 oz of shot in a 12ga very reliably. My buddy has an 1100 that is a backup/rain gun to his Over Unders ...and it easily cycles 7/8 oz loads at 1150 fps ..( which is all he shoots for Skeet or Trap in a 12ga ).

Most of the Benelli's are inertia systems (M4's are not) ...so they shoot a lot cleaner than most of the gas guns compared to guns from Beretta, Remington, etc ) ...but even the Inertia guns from Benelli need to be cleaned and lubed properly. Even properly maintained...most Inertia guns will not cycle loads below 1200 fps...regardless of whether its a 7/8oz, 1 oz , or 1 1/8 oz in a 12ga. But my Benelli Super Sport models in 12ga and 20ga run 100% on loads at 1200 fps. I have 10,000 - 20,000 shells thru my Benelli Super Sports ...and I don't think either one of them has ever failed to cycle. Like my buddies 1100 - my Benelli's have been reliable and versatile - backup/rain guns for me as well vs my Over Unders which I prefer.

Pump guns are certainly known for their reliability ...but if they aren't kept clean and lubed...they will jam as well. They are probably less finnicky as far as shells...but it seems like almost every month somebody at my club ...has a pump gun that is jamming...( typically a Rem 870 or a Mossberg ) ...but while sometimes its been related to cheap shells they've bought ...its usually a maintenance issue ( gun was last completely stripped apart 6 yrs ago or some foolishness...) .... but if kept clean and lubed ...pump guns are certainly reliable ..( and I have some Browning BPS's in 12ga and 20g that have been great guns for 30 + yrs....).

To me - its probably a maintenance issue !! ......but maybe it was the shells ....hard to know / unless I could take them apart...
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Old April 2, 2012, 02:52 PM   #5
jmr40
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In nutshell you could buy an 1100 that shot 2 3/4" only. Or you could buy an 1100 that would shoot 3", or 2 3/4" magnum shells only. Light loads would not function in the magnum guns.

The 11-87, as well as amost every other modern gas operated auto, uses a gas metering system that allows the very lightest 2 3/4" all the way up to the heaviest 3" magnum shells to be used in the same gun. Some designs are better than otheres. Remingtons design is not the best. The 1100's simpler design seems more dependable although the guns are not as verstatile.
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Old April 2, 2012, 03:06 PM   #6
zippy13
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Quote:
The 1100's simpler design seems more dependable although the guns are not as verstatile.
The reason they were favored by target shooters who didn't vary their loads very much. I still have a pre-87 1100 target gun.
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Old April 2, 2012, 03:23 PM   #7
BigJimP
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I'm confused..

JMR you said ....quote: " you could buy an 1100 that shot 2 3/4" only. Or you could buy an 1100 that would shoot 3", or 2 3/4" magnum shells only ".

1100's that are chambered in 3" ...will surely handle target loads in shells that are 2 3/4" long...especially if they're at a velocity of 1200 fps...which I consider a standard target load. I guess it depends on what you consider a light load vs a magnum load...but most any Rem 1100 or 1187 I've seen will handle loads at 1200 fps ...and that certainly, in my mind, is not a magnum load.
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Old April 2, 2012, 06:21 PM   #8
thinkingman
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I think what Jmr said was the 1100 magnum would only run on hi-velocity 2 3/4 or 3".
I have an 11-87 and it has never..literally never failed to run on anything...light to heavy.
And I don't maintain it that well, either.
It's just a pig to carry in the field and doesn't fit me that well.
Good for SC or waterfowl.
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Old April 2, 2012, 06:58 PM   #9
Virginian-in-LA
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The 11-87 was designed to function with anything from 1-1/8 ounce field loads up to 3" Magnums. If one is cleaned relatively decently, they work fine within that range. They do not like mouse fart loads.
Most 2-3/4" 1100 will eat anything from about 7/8 ounces on up in 2-3/4" only. The 3" 1100s were advertised as being able to shoot 3" and 2-3/4 Ounce Magnum loads, and everyone I have ever seen, will. Some will do better, but it's a hit or miss proposition.
Of late, Remington has designed their target 1100s to digest about anything up to 1-1/4 ounce loads, because of the propensity for clay shooters to want to shoot pipsqueak loads.
The biggest issue with any malfunctioning 1100 or 11-87, or indeed any semi auto, is the nut on the back of the stock. If they are decently maintained, they work as designed. I do not like Benellis, at all, but with the right loads they work as long as anything going.
The only differences between an 11-87 and an 1100 are the barrel - all 11-87s except target models have 3" chamber, bigger gas ports, and a gas relief system, a thicker extractor, and a stainless mag tube and piston and piston seal. I have had 9 different 1100/11-87s, and still have 4, and all were trouble free. Including my 1963, which has been "retired" to Clays duty when I feel like shooting a 12.
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Old April 2, 2012, 08:44 PM   #10
AllenJ
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Quote:
1100's that are chambered in 3" ...will surely handle target loads in shells that are 2 3/4" long
BigJimP I'm sorry to say they don't. I used to own a 1187 Super Mag and it would cycle 2 3/4" light game loads about half the time. I sold it and got a 3" 1100 from a friend and it would cycle those same 2 3/4" light games exactly NEVER! After some reading, mostly on Fireing Lines Forums, I found out that the 3" 1100 won't shoot light 2 3/4" loads. I ended up getting a 2 3/4" barrel for my 1100 and it now functions flawlessly. It seems the gas ports in the barrels are reason, the 3" has one large gas port and the 2 3/4" has two small ports.
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Old April 2, 2012, 10:08 PM   #11
Virginian-in-LA
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Actually that one port in the Magnum is about the size of the 2 in the other one.
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Old April 3, 2012, 01:52 AM   #12
zippy13
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Typically, with R-1100s, the longer the barrel the smaller the gas vent area. Remington assumed your application and sized the gas vent area accordingly. It's by altering the vent area that Remington tries to regulate the pressure in the 1100 gas works. With a long goose barrel, they assume you'll be using heavy loads. And, with a short Skeet barrel, it's target loads. It's with the imtermediate barrels that functioning can be a craps shoot.
Remington 1100 12-Gauge Gas Vents
Size (inches) / Drill - - - - Length / Model
.073 / #49 x 1 hole - - - - 34" Duck/Goose
.064 / #52 x 1 hole - - - - 30" Magnum
.079 / #47 x 2 holes- - - - 34" Full Trap
.079 / #47 x 2 holes- - - - 30", 28", 26", 22" Field
.086 / #44 x 2 holes- - - - 26" Skeet
.086 / #44 x 2 holes- - - - 26" Compensated
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Old April 3, 2012, 06:33 AM   #13
LSnSC
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If properly maintained, the 1100 and 11-87's are as reliable as anything else. I cant run as many rounds through them between cleanings as I can my Beretta's, but properly maintained they are just as reliable and actually shoot a little softer.
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Old April 3, 2012, 06:47 AM   #14
Virginian-in-LA
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Actually, I believe the data on the 34" Duck barrel is incorrect. They were 2-3/4" chamber and had 2 .079" holes with everyone I have seen. I can't personally vouch for any of the .410 data. Also, on the Magnums, everyone I have checked has been .076", except for some of the early Steel Shot barrels, and they soon changed that back. Steel loads were evolving rapidly back then.
Remember that unless it says Lightweight, it's a standard weight.

Model 1100 12ga-34” Trap .079”/ #47 drill 2 ea. Barrel
“ “ 12ga-30/28/26/22” .079”/ #47 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 12ga-26” Skeet .086”/ #44 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 12ga-26”(Compensator).086”/ #44 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 12ga-30”(Magnum) .073”/ #49 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 12ga-34” (Duck-Goose).073”/ #49 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 16ga-28/26” .076”/ #48 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28/26/22” .076”/ #48 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28” (Magnum) .076”/ #48 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 20ga-26” (Compensator) .086”/ #44 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28/26” (Light weight).067”/ #51 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28/26” (LT) .067”/ #51 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-26” Skeet(LT) .067”/ #51 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28” Magnum (LT) .064”/ #52 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 20ga-28” (LW Magnum) .064”/ #52 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 28ga-Reg/Skeet .067”/ #51 “ 2 “ “
“ “ 410- Reg. .067”/ #51 “ 1 “ “
“ “ 410-Skeet .060”/ #53 “ 2 “ “
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Old April 9, 2012, 12:30 AM   #15
roklok
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Something that could have been a factor in the malfunctions you witnessed is that most of the shorter barrels for the 11-87 that were likely to be used in a three gun event are not pressure compensated, they are designed for heavy 2/34 or 3 inch loads. The 11-87 field barrels with vent ribs are pressure compensated for light through heavy loads, the shorter barrels with rifle sights are not.

I have an 11-87 with two barrels, a 28 inch field barrel and a 21 inch rifle sighted barrel. My 21 inch barrel is very reliable with buckshot and slug loads, it resides under the mattress.

If the guys you beat were using the shorter barrels instead of field barrels, it is likely they could have caused problems with light shot loads.
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Old April 9, 2012, 01:25 AM   #16
trg42wraglefragle
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I've got a mate who has an 1187 thats probably 6 years old.
It is very reliable hardly ever jams, the only time I've seen it jam was when he was running some really cheap #7 through it when it was quite dirty, but running normal hunting loads its flawless.
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Old April 11, 2012, 07:31 PM   #17
Ridge_Runner_5
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My 1100 had ejection problems for the first dozen rounds or so, since then it's been a great shooter!
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