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Old March 27, 2012, 11:12 PM   #1
Cobray380
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Cost per shot

Hi, New user to the forum. This year I purchased a new Uberti 1858 New Army revolver as my first BP gun.
Fun to shoot but the cost per shot is high. Is this normal? I though it would be cheaper. Using a reloading calculator I can reload .45 acp with zero bullets, 5 grains bullseye, CCI 300 primer (reuse brass) @ $.17 round and $.05round if I cast my own. With cap and ball 30 grain by volume charge. Pryrodex P (21 grains = 30) with lubed wad, #11 cap and hornady .454 ball cost me $.37 per shot. 777 (23 grains = 30) is $.40 per shot. I bought 2 pounds of Goex 3F from Cabelas in PA for $34.99 a pound that's over .45 per shot. If I cast my own the price per shot is $ .14 less

Is there a cheaper way?
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Old March 27, 2012, 11:23 PM   #2
the rifleer
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I don't know, but I do know that with 2 pounds of power you would have to shoot for a very long time to use it all.
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Old March 27, 2012, 11:38 PM   #3
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Well to save money you could do a couple of things. First is order your powder from powderinc.com @ 22.95 per lb, Second of course is to cast your own balls. Third is to cut out the lubed wad (you don't really need it), just use the 30grs of powder, some corn meal for a filler, then smash the ball on top of it. Now its a very touch topic here as to whether or not to grease over the ball. You can if you want or not that is up to you. Or you could make your own lube, something like Gatofeos lube (beeswax,parrafin, and mutton tallow).
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Old March 27, 2012, 11:42 PM   #4
Beagle333
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I agree with DS303, and will add: also buy your caps in bulk. They are much cheaper by the 1000.

And welcome to the forum!
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Old March 28, 2012, 12:03 AM   #5
arcticap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobray380
Pryrodex P (21 grains = 30) with lubed wad, #11 cap and hornady .454 ball cost me $.37 per shot.
With the cost of 1 lb. of Pyrodex being $20, there's 7000 grains per pound which equals 233 thirty grain charges for a cap & ball revolver. That amounts to .085 cents per shot, or round up to about 10 cents.

100 Hornady .454 round balls at $10 per box equals 10 cents per ball.

A percussion cap costs about 5 cents each at $5 per 100.

The total cost is about 25 cents per shot for a cap & ball revolver.

Balls and caps may cost a cent or two more or less, and powder can cost a penny or two less, but either way the total costs per shot are about the same at 25 cents.
Loading with lubed wads can add to the final cost, but they also can be purchased in bulk for less, or made at home with bulk material from Durofelt.

http://www.durofelt.com./image_26.html

I punch out my own over powder cards from juice cartons for free.
Buffalo Arms sells vegetable fiber wads by the thousand @ 2 cents each.
And Eastern Maine Shooting Supplies sells lubed revolver wads @ ~5.4 cents each by the thousand with their 7% discount code for March - EMSS03.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...3374&TERM=wads

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...4656&TERM=wads

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...4657&TERM=wads

http://www.emshootingsupplies.com/ca...wool-wads.html

Last edited by arcticap; March 28, 2012 at 12:55 AM.
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Old March 28, 2012, 12:22 AM   #6
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The question needs to be is it worth it? At the end of the day nothing is free: everyone has a different opinion on worth/value though. To me, the fun of shooting blackpowder is worth the cost so I continue to do it and enjoy it. If its not worth the cost don't do it!
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Old March 28, 2012, 12:38 AM   #7
arcticap
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If one of the main reasons for the higher cost is the price of the lubed wad, then not spending as much for the wad might bring greater pleasure.
It's the same for casting your own round balls.
If it brings down the cost enough to increase one's level of enjoyment then doing it is an option.
I've found that my 1858 prefers over powder cards to using wool wads, at least with the type of powder, charges and compression that I use.
So being less expensive can also provide a performance bonus.

Last edited by arcticap; March 28, 2012 at 12:50 AM.
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Old March 28, 2012, 01:01 AM   #8
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The prices that I got were from 3 week ago at Cabelas in PA. I live in NC near Greensboro and the only other place is Gander mountain and there more than Cabelas.

Pryrodex P $21.00 pound

777 3f $27.99 pound

100 .454 ball on sale $14.99 reg $16.99

1000 CCi #11 Caps $54.99

100 Lubed wads $9.99

If omit the Lubed wad and cast my own ball using Pryrodex P is $.12 per shot

I'm still learning . Thanks on the link for Powderinc.com. Also found a nib Lyman 450229 mold 155 gr HB SWC to try. Waiting on the handles. Any thoughts on that mold? I read that the lee conical mold bullet was hard to seat straight.
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Old March 28, 2012, 02:38 AM   #9
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Me personally, I would shoot my cap and ball even if it cost 1.00 per shot, I like em that much. But Kaido Ojamaa kaido93@hotmail.com, makes some really nice bullets for these revolvers, they seat nice and straight and are accurate, he sells the molds too. He will send you 6 of each weight bullet free to try. Email him, its worth a try. He has a few videos on youtube of them, but I couldn't get the tube to load up here at work.
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Old March 28, 2012, 06:19 AM   #10
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Buying muzzleloading supplies at my local Cabelas is sort of like going to a ski resort to eat lunch.
I'll cast my own round balls before I pay their prices for them.
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Old March 28, 2012, 06:46 AM   #11
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Nuther thought....

..... Hornady balls are not only far more expensive than home cast balls, they are far less consistent than you can get by casting your own. If you can bring yourself to use the bullet metal you can scrounge up, your bullets are essential purchased at the price of the electricity to heat the metal and youyr time (Which to me is a fun activity so long as I have a bottle of Guiness Stout close by.)

If you want to use wads, go get yourself a felt hat at the Goodwill Thriftstore for about two bucks. That hat will provide felt for about a billion wads.(Make sure it says 100% wool. There are plenty of them out there.) Make your own lube from a recipe you get off of this forum. Punch out the wads with a punch that Harbor Freight sells for about eight bucks a set. There are punches in that set that work for .44 and .36. I haven't actually looked but I bet there is one in there that works for .31 as well.
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Old March 28, 2012, 08:29 AM   #12
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Well Doc
I didn't know you could buy Guiness in America. I went into a bar in Ireland in May and ordered a round of drinks. "I asked the barman when does the bar close". He said sometime in October. Honest it really happened.
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Old March 28, 2012, 09:18 AM   #13
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Wow, You're living high on the hog.

My last powder order(25# of KIK) cost me $10.50.

$19 dollars worth of felt from durofelt will last me almost 2 years.

Caps (#10 Remington) I pay $3.50/100 in 1000 cap lots

Balls I pour from scrounged metal.

Wax from my bees, crisco I steal from momma and toilet rings are about $2 for enough lube to grease my wads and load a whole lot of 44-40 rifle rounds.

Ya need to shop around!
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Old March 28, 2012, 09:39 AM   #14
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Myk...Here is an unrelated question....

My wife calls it....Genius Beer.

Because I drink it and it has that effect.

Is it true that Gordon's Gin is made by the same family for whom the Gordon Highlanders were named and that until the amalgamation of UK infantry units, the Sergeant's Mess of the Gordon Highlanders was supported by the distillery?
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Old March 28, 2012, 10:33 AM   #15
mikthestick
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a small snipit from wikipedia

It was developed in London in 1769 by a Scot, Alexander Gordon[1], who had opened a distillery in the Southwark area, later moving in 1786 to Clerkenwell[dubious – discuss]. The Special London Dry Gin he developed proved successful, and its recipe remains unchanged to this day[2]. Triple-distilled, the gin contains juniper berries, coriander seeds, angelica root and one other botanical.[3]

The recipe for Gordon's is known to only twelve people in the world and has been kept a secret for 250 years.[4]

If you google it you will find the Gordons have a fine military history. Probabley rivaled by many other Scottish/highland regiments. Never heard anywhere that Alexander gave the other Gordons free gin.

For Americans who don't know Highlanders and their clans are a bit like tribes of American indians, with similar rivalries, but perhaps less civilized
Forgot to say what I think I know of American indians they were not just civilized I like what I think I know of their moral values.

Last edited by mikthestick; March 28, 2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old March 28, 2012, 06:59 PM   #16
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Like the clans, and the rest of humankind, some were and some weren't.
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Old March 29, 2012, 01:30 AM   #17
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No matter what a person pays for their loading components, the price of gas and the distance to drive to the range is probably one of the major determining factors of the final cost per shot.
And even the distance that one drives to buy loading components can also be a major contributing expense to the price.
So chalk up some of the expenses to the increased cost for transportation which too often is omitted from the equation.
And of course another unmentioned expense is the cost of membership & fees for gun clubs and shooting ranges.
When those are factored in and averaged out per shot the costs can be astronomical.
And that's not even including the cost of the gun[s].
In the end a hamburger probably costs much less than firing a single shot from a C&B revolver.

Last edited by arcticap; March 29, 2012 at 01:40 AM.
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Old March 29, 2012, 06:18 AM   #18
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Articap + 1

That is a fact!
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Old March 29, 2012, 06:59 AM   #19
ZVP
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The return?

That's the real point, what's the return for shooting B/P?
For me it's got several reasons and returns for shooting with Black Powder.
I get to handle and shoot historical reproduction arms, I get the "Style" points for shooting with B/P, I get the thrill of a fairly inexpensive, powerfull shot to shot response. I get the "Wow Factor" at the range because it never fails at least one shooter has never seen B/P cap and ball revolvers shot, and I enjoy explaining the process to new shooters!
There are many viable reasons for bearing the costs and when you actually think about it, you shoot a LOT slower therefore get more gun handling time, the experience of measuring and single loading each ball. In the end you get a whole lot out of a small additional cost.
Frankilly one day I looked at the pile of empty ammo boxes, the spent hulls all over the place and realized that I'd only been shooting for about 30 minutes and was nearly out of ammo! I decided to go the Single Action route and slow down the shooting process to a snails pace to further enjoy my guns.
One day my order for a Vaquero got slowed by the Shot show and monthly inventory so as I paged theu a Cabela's catalog I noticed the C&B revolvers and thought since they don't require FFA paperwork and waiting period, can be mailed directly to the House "why not order one to fill in the wait for the Vaquero?" I did and I quicklly got hooked!
Yes, I go the extra route and usethe lubed wads because I fear chainfires and the Wads are probablly the best prevention! The minor extra cost is worth the peace of mind! It also speeds reload time!
So you have to spend about 33% more for the style points and fun of B/P shooting. Hey, NOTHING is free! I find the whole process well worth the minimal additional fees.
I also shoot spring airguns for similar reasons, plus their phenominial accuracy potential!
Maybe it's shob appeal, maybe it's just cool to shoot B/P, I know I'll never stop!
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Old March 29, 2012, 08:08 AM   #20
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When I began muzzle loading shooting in 1970 the cost per shot was almost too small to measure. That cost has gone up in increment to where it is certainly a factor for most household budgets.
I don't agree with all the reccomendations in previous posts but you can save money with some of them. Stick with it and you will enjoy.
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Old March 29, 2012, 09:59 AM   #21
Fingers McGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcticap
No matter what a person pays for their loading components, the price of gas and the distance to drive to the range is probably one of the major determining factors of the final cost per shot.
And even the distance that one drives to buy loading components can also be a major contributing expense to the price.
So chalk up some of the expenses to the increased cost for transportation which too often is omitted from the equation.
And of course another unmentioned expense is the cost of membership & fees for gun clubs and shooting ranges.
When those are factored in and averaged out per shot the costs can be astronomical.
And that's not even including the cost of the gun[s].
In the end a hamburger probably costs much less than firing a single shot from a C&B revolver.
Damn........ You mean the $150 I've spent on gas so far to come to this Texas match (Raid on Ft Parker) just added a dollar to the cost of each pistol round and some shotgun rounds I'm gonna fire ? ? Then another $150 for the trip home will jack the cost of my rifle and the rest of the shotgun rounds up a dollar too? ? ?

Well, I'm here now. might as well enjoy myself and try not to think about the cost . ...................

Yeah......like It was gonna bother me

If you want to figure out your costt per round, here is one of many cost calculators you can find on the web that will do it for you. Just plug in your price for components and go.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp
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Old March 29, 2012, 06:53 PM   #22
arcticap
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Since I usually stock up on various loading components and hold on to them for the long term, by the time that I go to shoot using them I tend to forget about their original cost and even having paid for them.
The club and range membership fees get paid for whatever shooting that I will be doing during the upcoming year anyway.
So once a person gets out there and starts doing some shooting, most of the costs are a wash and forgotten about.
Plus if a person stocks up on components today, they will usually always be less expensive then what they will cost in the future.
So stock up on components when you can find them at a good price which is usually in bulk, and just don't think about all of those missed hamburgers!

Last edited by arcticap; March 30, 2012 at 01:50 AM.
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Old March 29, 2012, 07:09 PM   #23
Jim Watson
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I shoot BPCR and just avoid adding up the costs.
Buying bullets of 600 yard quality and Swiss powder to push them is no doubt expensive. And if you put any money value on the time spent to load (I don't) it is just out of sight. But I like to do it and am willing to pay the tariff.
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