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Old March 8, 2012, 09:49 AM   #1
Murdock
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Blue & Red dummy guns: Somebody must make one like this

There are lots of blue and red training pistols out there, but I have yet to find the version I need.

Cocked & locked 1911 with a rail
Blue or Red make no difference to me.
Full weight is important.

Weight seems to be the issue most difficult to solve. There is a blue copy of the Springfield operator that comes very close to my carry gun, but appears to weigh only a few ounces. Is there a version that weighs at least 35 ounces? If not, has anyone tried to add weight to one of these lighter versions to make it handle more like the real thing?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Old March 8, 2012, 10:03 AM   #2
MoBart
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I used the red guns for several years as a leo trainer before going back to our corps, hey are just plastic and easy to work with. If weight is an issue, melt some fishing weights, drill a hole and shazam. Im guessing for the c&l issue your wanting holster compatability, cut the spur off what you get, it will function the same. The rail? Find an extra piece of pic rail cut to fit, epoxy it to the dust cover area of the trainer piece, might need to cut away some matebut so what, its all plastic with no mechanical function to interfere with. Good luck, Semper Fi.
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Old March 8, 2012, 11:15 AM   #3
Frank Ettin
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We use a variety of inert training guns in our classes, including a railed 1911. And they are "full weight." But I've never seen a 1911 variant "cocked and locked."
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Old March 9, 2012, 01:41 PM   #4
johnwilliamson062
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Is there a specific reason you want it cocked and locked, such as simulating snags, or you just want it to look exactly like it would in a real situation?
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Old March 9, 2012, 03:55 PM   #5
farmerboy
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ever thought about using your cocked and locked gun but make sure its unloaded???
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Old March 9, 2012, 09:14 PM   #6
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
ever thought about using your cocked and locked gun but make sure its unloaded???
Probably a really bad idea.

Of course we don't know exactly what the OP wants to use the inert training gun for. But if he intends to use it for some purpose that really does call for an inert training gun, like certain training or practice exercises, he should not be using a gun that can fire live ammunition.
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Old March 9, 2012, 09:30 PM   #7
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How about a Blade-Tech Training Barrel?
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Old March 9, 2012, 11:47 PM   #8
farmerboy
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training in your own yard or range by yourself Id use my own gun but if youre training with others sure it'd be a bad idea. Especially if you friends or others got pointed at and charged you with deadly conduct. (Ive seen that happen with it was a Dallas pd on the swat team) lost his job with Dallas PD. My opinion he should have and there was plenty of simunition guns available. The year before last a new cadet doing a bldg clearing practice accidently shot his best friend in the head. Using his own "empty" gun. Or he ASSumed it was! Be careful and double, triple check and everything else but if I was alone Id use my own empty gun.
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Old March 9, 2012, 11:53 PM   #9
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
training in your own yard or range by yourself Id use my own gun but if youre training with others sure it'd be a bad idea. ... but if I was alone Id use my own empty gun.
One of the keys to being safe is doing things the same way all the time -- making safety a strict habit.
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Old March 10, 2012, 03:45 AM   #10
farmerboy
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ok/ Id train in my yard or by myself with my own gun, unloaded each and every time then but if it were with a bunch of others then we train with the rubber guns.
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Old March 10, 2012, 05:14 AM   #11
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
ok/ Id train in my yard or by myself with my own gun, unloaded each and every time then but if it were with a bunch of others then we train with the rubber guns.
I understand that. And I still think that's a bad practice.
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Old March 10, 2012, 05:48 AM   #12
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My primary need for using a dummy gun with a rail is that I am an NRA handgun instructor and want to be able to demonstrate use of a tactical flashlight in the classroom. We of course also demonstrate correct grip, etc., and everybody is more comfortable with a dummy gun in such a setting.

My specific desire for a condition one of full weight is that there are occasional situations where I may want to practice my presentation, which I would normally perform with my empty carry gun, but it may not be possible to have my operational weapon in my possession, such as when on a business trip to certain states.

The Blade-Tech isn't a bad idea.

What I had hoped for was to hear from someone who knew of source for a full-weight 1911 dummy in condition one with a rail. I have handled one at a local gun show but the one I saw wasn't for sale. Don't know who made it.
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Last edited by Frank Ettin; March 10, 2012 at 06:14 AM. Reason: clean up insulting language
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Old March 10, 2012, 04:00 PM   #13
Don P
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Quote:
Probably a really bad idea.

Of course we don't know exactly what the OP wants to use the inert training gun for. But if he intends to use it for some purpose that really does call for an inert training gun, like certain training or practice exercises, he should not be using a gun that can fire live ammunition.
Simple fix, for training in the classroom, REMOVE THE FIRING PIN. Now you have the real deal and no way possible for it to go off.
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Old March 10, 2012, 05:51 PM   #14
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If I were an instructor, . . . traveling from state to state to train, . . . I'd send out an invitation to Wilson, Colt, SA, and anyone else who makes a full size railed gun, . . . telling them I needed an INERT frame and dust cover with their name and logo on it, . . . and tell them the purpose.

Add a scrap barrel and innards, . . . hot solder the whole thing so it doesn't move, . . . paint it dark blue, . . . you are in the chips.

Selling the manufacturer may take some salesmanship and you may have to mention their name 10 times in your presentation, . . . but I think it would be worth it myself.

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Old March 10, 2012, 06:13 PM   #15
wayneinFL
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Quote:
If I were an instructor, . . . traveling from state to state to train, . . . I'd send out an invitation to Wilson, Colt, SA, and anyone else who makes a full size railed gun, . . . telling them I needed an INERT frame and dust cover with their name and logo on it, . . . and tell them the purpose.

Add a scrap barrel and innards, . . . hot solder the whole thing so it doesn't move, . . . paint it dark blue, . . . you are in the chips.
When I took a USPSA RO course, the instructor had put together a dummy gun out of worn out or damaged 1911 parts he had accumulated over the years. He epoxied the barrel full and didn't install a firing pin. He could run a student through a course of fire and demonstrate checking the chamber, dropping the hammer, etc. without an operable firearm.
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Old March 10, 2012, 06:36 PM   #16
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dropping the firing pin would be a great idea. Just make sure everyone sees the inside before training. Its still an uncomfortable feeling looking at the barrel end a firearm. But great idea!
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