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Old February 24, 2012, 02:49 PM   #1
hoytinak
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Failure to extract with reloads?

What would cause 2-3 failure to extracts with just reloads? Using 124gr FMJ bullets with 4.8gr Blue Dot powder and getting 2-3 failure to extracts per mag out of my HK USP Compact. The USPc shot several different types of factory loads without a problem. This is the first time using reloads in the USPc and I didn't have another 9mm with me to test the reloads in. (though I've shot them before in other 9mms with no problems) I stripped/inspected/cleaned the USPc and the extractor/spring looked good.

Edit: Also looking at the casings, I don't see any difference in the ones that failed to extract vs. the ones that worked fine.

Last edited by hoytinak; February 24, 2012 at 02:56 PM.
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Old February 24, 2012, 02:56 PM   #2
Jimro
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Blue Dot. There's your problem. Blue Dot is a good powder, but it works best with compressed shotgun or pistol loads.

My guess is that your pistol is short stroking.

I hope this helps.
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Old February 24, 2012, 02:59 PM   #3
dacaur
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+1 on short stroking, 4.8gr is the minimum load according to my hornady manual, try a little more powder. max for blue dot is 6.6gr, I would try 5.5-6gr.
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Old February 24, 2012, 04:32 PM   #4
hoytinak
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Ok, I messed up.....it's not Blue Dot, it's Bullseye powder.....would that change anything?

These are my father's old reloads and I could have swore it was Blue Dot but he's got 4.8gr Bulleye written on the box.


***I don't reload and know nothing about what powders are what.
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Old February 24, 2012, 06:11 PM   #5
steve4102
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Quote:
Ok, I messed up.....it's not Blue Dot, it's Bullseye powder.....would that change anything?
Yup, a lot.
According to Alliant 4.4gr of Bullseye Is max.
Lyman 48, 4.5gr is Max
Sierra #5, 4.4gr is Max

If it is Bullseye you are over the top. What is the OAL of this over max load?
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Old February 24, 2012, 06:28 PM   #6
hoytinak
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OAL is 1.145
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Old February 24, 2012, 06:49 PM   #7
chris in va
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Pull one of the bullets and see if the powder has blue flecks in it. If not, it's...something else.
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Old February 24, 2012, 07:01 PM   #8
hoytinak
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Quote:
Pull one of the bullets and see if the powder has blue flecks in it. If not, it's...something else.
Will do in the morning (bout to head to work) and I'll update in the morning.
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Old February 24, 2012, 07:49 PM   #9
jepp2
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Quote:
What would cause 2-3 failure to extracts with just reloads?
Low chamber pressure. The 9mm is sensitive to bullet seating depth and chamber pressure can change quickly with minor changes in bullet seating depth. I find that I need to run around 24K psi for reliable cycling in my 9mm pistols.
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Old February 24, 2012, 08:50 PM   #10
dacaur
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IMO, bullseye is too fast for a 124gr bullet.... You are WAY overpressuring your gun! 4.6gr of bullseye is the MAX load for a 115gr bullets in my book, and as you probably know, when you use a heavier bullet, you need to use LESS powder.... ( book doesnt have a load for bullseye with 124gr bullets) Where did you get your load data?
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Old February 24, 2012, 09:17 PM   #11
Triplespeed
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» RELOADER'S GUIDE
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RELOADER'S GUIDE
Alliant Powder Reload Recipes

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Recipe
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Pistols and Revolvers
9mm Luger
124 gr Speer GDHP
Bullseye
CCI 500

Minimum OAL(inches)
Bbl Length
Primer
Powder
Charge Weight
grains)
Velocity
(fps)
1.12 4 CCI 500 Bullseye 4.4 1,059
This is off alliants website anyone have any data that is older could be different. Just a thought but still would say over pressure
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Old February 24, 2012, 09:18 PM   #12
jepp2
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Quote:
IMO, bullseye is too fast for a 124gr bullet.... You are WAY overpressuring your gun! 4.6gr of bullseye is the MAX load for a 115gr bullets in my book, and as you probably know, when you use a heavier bullet, you need to use LESS powder.... ( book doesnt have a load for bullseye with 124gr bullets) Where did you get your load data?
Not sure where you are getting your data. The Alliant Powder Reloader's Guide clearly shows a Bullseye load for 124 grain bullet with a shorter OAL than the OP. The loading is slightly less at 4.4 gr, but with the longer length and not knowing the bullet length of the OP load, your statement might be incorrect.

A slower burn rate powder would be my choice for the bullet selected but since extraction is the issue, I'm not sure WAY overpressuring is a correct assessment.


Code:
Pistols and Revolvers
9mm Luger

    124 gr Speer GDHP
    Bullseye
    CCI 500

	
Minimum OAL(inches)  1.12"
	
Bbl Length   4
	
Primer   CCI 500
	
Powder  Bullseye
	
Charge Weight    4.4
grains)
	
Velocity  1,059
(fps)
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Old February 25, 2012, 12:39 AM   #13
Zach W.
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If they don't work, they don't work.
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Old February 25, 2012, 02:00 AM   #14
warningshot
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Run a box of 50 factory thru the HK. I don't think it's the gun, but close the door on a gun issue with a box of factory. I think americano shooters have been loading 9x19 with Bullseye & 124s for, oh say...60 or 70 years...successfully. Who knows...keep all us experts updated.
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Old February 25, 2012, 02:02 AM   #15
dacaur
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I have found that powder MFG's reloading data is generally hotter than bullet MFG's data. For instance, Hodgton puts the max load for 165gr .308 win bullets using varget at 46 grains, while hornady puts the max at 44 grains.... I couldn't even fit 46 grains in the case and still get the bullet seated to 2.8", I tried it because at 43.8 grains its already a compressed load, and at 44.3 grains I had to beat my bolt open.... I would only use a powder MFG's data if I was unable to find anything else....

And as above, the load is obviously not working good in the gun.....

I generally try to use a "middle of the road" powder for all my loads, one that falls somewhere in the middle of the pack of generally accepted powders for a cartridge, which is why I believe bullseye is too fast for 9mm.... Not saying it wont work, people obviously use it... Back the powder down .5-1 grain and I bet it will work fine... just stating my preferences..., thats Why I prefaced it with IMO....

As for not being too much over pressure, when you are talking about rifle rounds, .4gr doesnt seem like much, but in a 9mm where you are using under 5 grains to start with, 4.4 grains to 4.8 grains is more than 10% too much powder... if thats not way overpressure, then I dont know what is.... that would be like me trying to stuff 48 grains of powder into my .308 loads... if it would fit, I dont think it would do anything pretty to my gun...
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