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Old November 11, 2010, 01:01 AM   #1
bella xo
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NYC Pistol Premises Permit.. Will I get denied?

Hi guys..

So unfortunately for me I'm from NYC where the pistol permit laws seem to be the strictest in the country. I've been wanting to become an Armed Security Guard for quite some time now (already licensed unarmed) and I'm beginning the long journey of trying to make this happen. There are a few things that work against me and I'm wondering if you guys think this would be a deal breaker (before I go and blow $500 to apply). I'm applying for premises residential even though I do not own a firearm or intend to, This is simply to satisfy the laws requirement to obtain the Armed Security License.

I'm 24 now, happily married to a Navy Veteran...and when he was based in PA he used to take me to the shooting range all the time, getting a permit was so effortless there, UGH! Anyway when I was 16 or 17 I got into a minor altercation with my mom at her house and long story short I was charged with Menacing in the 3rd Degree (Class B Misdemeanor), This is the most minor charge of menacing, and I was also a juvenile. We've all been in fights with our parents and that particular day simply because I happened to be holding something (don't even remember what it was?!) the cops were called and I was arrested. That same day it was resolved between us and she even begged the officers to let me go but I guess since they already drove out to our residence, They deemed something had to come of it. I don't remember getting a fine and of course no jail time.. I was simply ordered to attend an Anger Management meeting and the record to my knowledge was expunged, No incident with the law since, Not even a parking ticket. And I've had countless background checks for previous employment without issue.. But I know they'll dig deep enough to find this.. and I intend to make them aware of it because if they find it anyway that's an automatic dismissal.. My question is, does it seem realistic that they'll approve me or am I wasting my time and money for an almost certain denial?

I really want to be an armed security officer... I can't believe something so petty and insignificant can change that... What do you guys think??
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Old November 11, 2010, 10:55 AM   #2
Uncle Buck
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First off, I would find out if it was still on your record. If it is not, I would not mention it. If you were tried as a juvenile, and it has been expunged or sealed, you should be good to go.
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Old November 11, 2010, 11:11 AM   #3
ammo.crafter
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ugh

As Uncle Buck stated, get it expunged. Find out if you were charged as an juvenile and if so if the record was sealed. Be aware that NYC most likely will skirt the courts and peak into your juvenile record, regardless.

Were you convicted or merely arrested? An arrest is not the same as a conviction. An arrest is merely a suspicion of an offense.

I left NYC a very long time ago, when the fee was $3.00 and they swore that would never be increased.

Good luck!!!!!
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Old November 11, 2010, 12:54 PM   #4
bella xo
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If I was arrested and charged doesn't that mean I was convicted? I stood before a judge where she ordered me to Anger Management. I did more research and apparently I don't think records can be expunged in NY, sealed maybe but they took my prints and mug shot at the time so I'm pretty sure they'll find it... I think I'm going to go to the courthouse and get the disposition and then try if possible to get it cleared.. If I can't clear it, should I still apply?

This is taken directly from the Permit Application:

7. A.) Arrest Information: If you were ever arrested, indicted or summonsed (other than parking violations) for
any reason you must answer Yes to question-23 and submit a certificate of disposition showing the offense and
the disposition. Also, you must submit a detailed, notarized statement describing the circumstances surrounding
each arrest. YOU MUST DO THIS EVEN IF: the case was dismissed, the record sealed or the case nullified by
operation of law. The New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services will report to us every instance
involving the arrest of an applicant. DO NOT rely on anyone’s representation that you need not list a previous
arrest. If you were ever convicted or pleaded guilty to a felony or a serious offense, as defined in Penal Law
Section 265.00(17), an original Certificate of Relief from Disabilities, with box “a” or box “b” checked, and signed
by a judge, must be submitted.
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Old November 11, 2010, 04:41 PM   #5
g.willikers
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It's catch-22 time.
You are living in NY.
Only crazy people live in NY.
Therefore your application will be rejected.
Because you are crazy.
But if you move out of NY, then they will grant your request. 'cause you will have recovered your sanity.
But if you move back to NY, then your gun must be turned in.
'Cause that proves you are still crazy.
Them's the rules, NY style.
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Old November 11, 2010, 08:20 PM   #6
Glenn Dee
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I used to live in NYC.... I used to be crazy. Then I moved to Florida, and I'm feeling MUCH better now.

Greetings...

First off I dont believe that it will matter unless you fail to disclose it. A "B" misdemeanor is still a crime. In NY state 16, or 17 is considered an adult. If you were photographed while wearing a number, and fingerprinted you have an adult criminal record.

It would be wise to go to the criminal court in the county you were arrested, and get a record of the disposition. From your description it sounds like you were granted an ACD. (adjurnment in contemplation of dismissal) If this is the case for all intent and purpose you have a clean record. The arrest cant be held against you as a criminal record. However if you fail to disclose the arrest on your application they may view it as you trying to hide that info. At the end of the day it's nonsense but the current administration will go to insane lengths to avoid allowing a regular citizen to arm him/herself.

You can apply, and be appointed to the NYPD as a police officer with a "B" misdemeanor conviction on your record, but will be denied a handgun license for the same conviction. The catch-all is the requirement of the aplicant to be of good moral character. They judge this using a subjective standard. In other words they pretty much make it up as they go along. So now I understand they are denying people because of a poor credit report... You have to remember... This is NYC.

As far as working in armed security it's a good idea to get a premis/target permit. Once you get one it's not hard to get a carry/work permit. When working as an armed security person the permit pretty much belongs to the company you work for. Even if you pay for it. NYC pistol permits have the firearm(s) your authorized enumerated with serial # on the permit itself. You may only carry/posses the firearms listed on the permit. If you use your personal firearm for security work it's best to have that same gun listed on your premis permit. When you seperate from any security company you must turn in any firearm listed on your work permit to the company custodian of guns. So... If you use a personal firearm for work, and dont have a premis permit... you have to turn your gun over to the company, or voucher it at a police station. Either way the gun is gone at worst... at best it wont be in the same condition you gave it up.

Am I ranting?...lol sorry. Well good luck, go for the premis permit... keep us posted.


Glenn D.
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Old November 11, 2010, 08:47 PM   #7
silvercorvette
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I escaped from NY 3 years ago, and even though I as a cop I had a carry permit the laws in NY were terrible. I couldn't leave till I got legal issues and family stuff resolved. Is there a reason why you can't leave because things are a lot better down south. I live in Anderson SC and drive back to Huntington LI NY in about 15 hours (time behind the wheel not including rest stops).

Even with a permit buying a gun was a PITA that required a lot of paperwork. Now IN SC I can walk into a gun show and pay cash and walk out with a gun no questions asked (as long as you are a legal SC resident).

Come on down sales tax is cheaper, gas, electric, houses, rent every thing here is better and cheaper.
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Old November 12, 2010, 01:44 PM   #8
AH.74
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Quote:
If I was arrested and charged doesn't that mean I was convicted?
The answer to your question is no.

People are arrested and charged all the time, and not convicted for any number of reasons.

Quote:
If you were photographed while wearing a number, and fingerprinted you have an adult criminal record.
If there was no actual conviction in court, this is untrue. You can be fingerprinted and photographed until the cows come home, but if you're not convicted it doesn't matter as far as an actual adult criminal record.

There will be record of the arrest and charge however. That does not disappear. But it is not a criminal record.
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Old November 13, 2010, 05:55 AM   #9
bella xo
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Only in NY is there a service that for a small fee of $700, they can guarantee approval or money back. I'm starting to wonder if this whole thing is even worth it. It's gonna cost me $1100 just to get the permit, and I don't even have my own gun anymore because the cost and effort of transferring it to this hell hole was just too much so I sold it. I have my unarmed license and although the pay is significantly less, I don't know if I can deal with all this paperwork anymore. I went to the court today, Got the disposition and the charge was sealed & dismissed - But of course I still have to treat it like it isn't. I paid for a certificate of good conduct to include with the disposition (and police report). At this point I just don't know if I want to gamble so much money.. Or spend 1k+ for a job opportunity. I loved growing up in this city as a kid, the older I get the more I detest it and every corrupt politician in it.. Trust me I'd love to move, FAR.. this cities' like quicksand though.
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Old November 13, 2010, 09:06 AM   #10
AH.74
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One question is, how long will it take you to recoup the cost if you get the job with higher pay? And, how long do you plan to stay there?

It seems like a huge hassle but I think it would be worth it in the long run to do it and have it taken care of, and move on and forget about it.

You got the disposition and certificate. Now all you need to do is type up a brief summary of the event and get it notarized. That's simple to do and should not cost much. Your bank may even do it for free.

You're most of the way there. Don't let the system stand in the way of something you really want to do.

Or, plan your "escape" as others have done and experience what it's like in free states.
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Old January 29, 2011, 03:47 PM   #11
Shef
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bella xo -
I'm not sure if you found your answer or not...but you say that you do not intend to get a handgun? If that's correct, then you need not apply since if/when you get approved, you MUST purchase a handgun within 30 days of getting approved or they will revoke the license.

I just got approved the other day, got my license and now desperately trying out every type of handgun to find the right one before my 30 days is up.
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Old January 30, 2011, 11:59 AM   #12
vito
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Will you be denied? Does a wild bear s--- in the woods?
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Old January 31, 2011, 01:42 AM   #13
EricReynolds
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You can always call the NYPD and honstly ask for an opinion. It can't hurt. I have an armed NYS security license myself and as difficult and expensive as the permit and license were to get, I know it's worse downstate. Do you have a prospective job you're looking at? If so, ask your would be employer. Theey probably have some experience in that area.
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Old January 31, 2011, 11:38 AM   #14
Musketeer
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Not NYC but NY State. Going for my permit I was informed they open everything, including juvenile records. If you fail to fess up to anything in those records up front I was told it was grounds for rejection. My buddy had a trespassing arrest from when he was 15 for playing around on the roof of the school at night. Wasn't even vandalism, just stupid exploring. It was openend and checked when he was 28 going for his permit. It didn't stop him but he was questioned.
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Old April 8, 2011, 02:15 PM   #15
xlendi
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at SHEF , how long after you put in ur application did u get a response and how long did the whole process take??i ask this, cause about a month ago i sent in my application and would like to know how long it takes ...
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Old October 24, 2011, 08:35 PM   #16
skipper
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hey guys, i lived here at nyc i want to get a gun permit but the thing bothers me i got a cellphone driving ticket. is there possibility they will deny my application.
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Old October 24, 2011, 09:36 PM   #17
hermannr
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You did not say whether this encounter with your mother happened in NYS or not.

Can they legally look into sealed juvinile records? If they can, their seal isn't very good is it? When records are sealed, they are supposed to be never looked at again? I would look at NYS law to see if they are lying to you on the app, or not.

As crooked as NYC is, it would not surprise me they would lie to you.
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Old October 25, 2011, 08:45 AM   #18
batjka
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Here's the story:

You were obviously convicted of the offense and sentenced to attend anger management classes. You absolutely have to disclose this info.

You will have to get a form called something like "relief from disability". I don't remember the exact name, but it's similar. Basically you have to go to court and get this form that verifies that you've been out of trouble ever since the offense. It's not a big deal, but adds to the amount of paper work that needs to be completed.

I'm pretty sure this process is described in the application package.

I highly recommend joining ar15.com Hometown Forum where there are lots of people that will help you answer NY-specific questions.

Good luck.

BTW, NYC stopped issuing "target" permits because a "target" permit is a "carry concealed" permit as described in PL400.

Few years back some guy was caught carrying on his "target" permit and couldn't be criminally prosecuted for doing so. The City then changed ALL the permits to "premise" in order to make sure that anyone caught carrying gets a 3-year mandatory sentence. But, they allow "premise permit" holders to take their handguns out of the premises to a shooting range. Which in itself is a violation of PL400. Talk about the City ignoring State laws!
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Old October 25, 2011, 08:48 AM   #19
batjka
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Skipper,

You have nothing to worry about. You have to disclose all arrests and convictions OTHER than traffic infractions. So you're good to go.
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:33 AM   #20
Edavis456
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A mistermeaner

I want to go for my Premise/Permit but i have one class A mistermeaner would this hurt my chances of getting it i live in NYC and have broken any other laws. I never did any jail time or payed any fines.
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Old February 19, 2012, 11:00 AM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
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I think the latest post is somewhat incomprehensible. I suggest the OP contact the appropriate NY state or NYC authorities as I cannot parse the post.

Closed as a necrothread.
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