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Old February 14, 2012, 01:51 PM   #76
Marquezj16
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Quote:
My friend only uses the slide-stop or slide-release. Drives me bonkers when he does it on my SIGs (which is also what he has). Even more so when he slams the slide on an empty chamber.
Sig manuals on my SP2022, P220, and 1911 states you can thumb down the slide catch lever or pull the slide fully to the rear and release for reloading on an empty mag.

As far as slamming the slide on an empty chamber it only states to do this when verifying function after you strip and assemble the pistol. At no other times should you let the slide slam forward unless loading the pistol.

I would not let your friend shoot your pistols until he follows your simple guide.
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Old February 14, 2012, 02:10 PM   #77
Walt Sherrill
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As far as slamming the slide on an empty chamber it only states to do this when verifying function after you strip and assemble the pistol. At no other times should you let the slide slam forward unless loading the pistol.
Does the manual state "at no other times should you let the slide slam forward" or is that your personal practice?

I've been led to believe that this is an issue ONLY with 1911-type weapons, due to the specifics of that gun's hammer/sear interaction.

I've not heard a lot from anyone but 1911 shooters about this concern.

Some of the gun sports, at the end of a string, require you to drop the slide after showing a safety officer that the chamber is empty -- and then pulling the trigger with the gun pointed down range. Folks shooting 1911s often drop the slide slowly, but darned near everyone else just lets the slide drop. Many (perhaps most) of them use the slide release.
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Old February 14, 2012, 02:25 PM   #78
Marquezj16
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Walt - pg 18 of Sig Sauer 1911 Owners Manual

Quote:
5.4 VERIFICATION OF FUNCTIONS
Do these checks only after you strip and assemble the pistol. Do not slam the
slide forward at any other time, except when loading. If you rack the slide when
the pistol is unloaded, ease the slide forward with your hand. After assembling
the pistol, check its function as follows:
• Insert an empty magazine and check that the magazine ejects when the magazine
release button is pressed.
• With the magazine removed, pull the slide back fully and let it go. It should fly
forward and close over the empty chamber.
• With the magazine inserted, pull the slide back fully and let it go. It should
NOT fly forward.
I should have been more clear that it only states this with the 1911.

Last edited by Marquezj16; February 14, 2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old February 14, 2012, 02:50 PM   #79
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Quote:
I disagree with the term slide release. It's a slide lock.
The Browning patents call it both at different points, and even call attention to the checkering on the 1911 release to give a firmer action when using it to release the slide.

Quote:
how would it stop a first round flyer? the barrel controls stabilization of the bullet, not the chamber. a first round flyer is caused by a cold barrel not an improperly seated bullet.
More consistent chambering and lockup.

Quote:
once the metal heats and expands you end up with slightly smaller diameter barrel
Simply completely wrong.
A hole in material changes size with temperature exactly as the missing material would.
If the metal expands on heating, thte bore and chamber expand on heating and become looser.

Quote:
First, when s.h.t.f. you loose all small muscle control.
Try training some more. Sounds like you need it.

How did I ever start all those hundreds of IVs as a paramedic?
Torn up bodies, screaming patients (and relatives), blood all over the place.

I guess the needles just magically went in correctly (and most of them from before the widespread us of catheters). These were large bore rigid needles (#12 and #14). There was a reason patients with IVs used to have their arm attached to a board.
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Old February 14, 2012, 02:57 PM   #80
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Quote:
These were large bore rigid needles (#12 and #14).
You were just being mean.
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Old February 14, 2012, 03:19 PM   #81
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@Marquezj16

I try. Problem is he has been shooting longer than me and tends to think that because of this I generally don't know anything.
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Old February 14, 2012, 03:36 PM   #82
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Quote:
My friend only uses the slide-stop or slide-release. Drives me bonkers when he does it on my SIGs (which is also what he has). Even more so when he slams the slide on an empty chamber.
I recently took my brand new Sig p226 to an indoor range. Before I could shoot I had to have a safety inspection done on the pistol. The range staff inspecting my gun was some kid in his early 20s who REPEATEDLY let the slide slam home on an empty chamber. I'm generally not real uptight about my guns, but after like the 5th time I finally said, ok you can give me the gun back already, and for future reference when someone gives you their gun, dont release the slide like that on an empty chamber, and I showed him how to do it right. He just said uh....okaaaaaaaay like I was being totally ridiculous.
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Old February 14, 2012, 04:06 PM   #83
Walt Sherrill
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He just said uh....okaaaaaaaay like I was being totally ridiculous.
Unless the gun in question was a 1911, you MIGHT be doing something that, if not ridiculous, at least isn't really necessary.

Is SCHMEKY around? He works on both 1911s and non-1911s, and designs sear parts, etc. He might have a clue whether this is really a potential problem for all guns, or just something that is more important for 1911s.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; February 14, 2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old February 14, 2012, 04:44 PM   #84
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now that i think about it... if the slide is already back i use the release.
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Old February 14, 2012, 05:26 PM   #85
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As a lad of 17 USMC taught me to use the slingshot method. I've been doing it for the past 67 years...
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Old February 14, 2012, 06:02 PM   #86
serf 'rett
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Both and almost neither.

Kahr states to use the slide release.

In IDPA I slingshot with the rear slide pinch to load and make ready, use slide release when reloading on the clock and show clear with overhand grasp easing the slide back and then forward.

The almost neither kicks in with my IWI 40S&W which will often close by itself if the magazine is "popped" into place. Makes for a quick turnaround.
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Old February 14, 2012, 07:50 PM   #87
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If stops/releases weren't intended to be used to release the slide, the gun designers should have left off the lever (that releases the slide by finger pressure). I wonder why those clever designers overlooked that point, if they REALLY intended us to use ONLY the slingshot method?
"Leave off the lever"... ok, I'll take a stab at this one - the slide catch is useful to keep the slide to the rear. However it most certainly is not absolutely necessary:

It may be noteworthy that the Walther PPK/s has an internal slide catch which is activated by inserting an empty magazine and retracting the slide. If someone doesn't believe in the slingshot method, I guess this gun would be useless in a gunfight, because that is the only way to put it into battery.
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:04 PM   #88
Walt Sherrill
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"Leave off the lever"... ok, I'll take a stab at this one - the slide catch is useful to keep the slide to the rear. However it most certainly is not absolutely necessary..
The part of the slide stop that extends OUT from the slide (where your fingers can press it) isn't necessary to keep the slide open. That stop lever could be flush and you could still keep the slide open -- and just close the slide using the slingshot technique.

Seems to me that the little flange on the lever that allows a finger pressure release, tells us that it's there for that REASON. That doesn't mean you can't slingshot -- nor does it mean that you MUST use the lever.

(This is a bit like arguing about whether a glass is half-full or half-empty, when it is, in some sense, both, and not just one or the other.)

As I wrote in an earlier response here, a shooter should do what works best for him or her. That said, I don't think anyone can rightly claim that either of the methods discussed were intended by gun designers in general to be the only method used.


.
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:35 PM   #89
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This is from the SR9c manual:
TO RELOAD THE PISTOL
1. Firing all cartridges in the magazine and the chamber will cause the slide to
automatically lock open. Keep the pistol pointed in a safe direction. Press in
on either magazine latch with the thumb or forefinger . The magazine will fall
free of the pistol of its own weight if the slide is locked open. T o avoid the
possibility of damage to the magazine, do not let it fall to the ground unless
rapid reloading is absolutely necessary.
2. Insert a loaded magazine. WARNING: The slide stop is held in place by the
slide pressing against the rear of the slide stop. Therefore, when there is a
loaded magazine in place and the pistol is jarred, the slide can fly forward and
chamber a cartridge. For this reason and as an essential safety practice, the
pistol should always be pointed in a safe direction.
3. Release the slide to move forward by pulling the slide fully to the rear and
release it. A cartridge will be chambered when the slide shuts.
WARNING:
The pistol is ready to fire. If you are not going to immediately shoot the
pistol, engage the safety by moving the safety lever upward so that the red
oval is fully covered and the white dot is exposed. When you are finished
firing the pistol, unload it completely (see pages 19 - 21).

Quote:
That said, I don't think anyone can rightly claim that either of the methods discussed were intended by gun designers in general to be the only method used.
WS I don't have enough experience with all weapons to know if Ruger (at least the SR series) is the only exception to the your statement, but it is an exception. They do not intend for the slide stop to be used as a slide release. You may be able to force it to release that way, but it is not how it was designed.
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Old February 14, 2012, 08:36 PM   #90
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optimist: "the glass is half full"

pessimist: "the glass is half empty"

engineer: "the glass is twice the size that it needs to be"

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Old February 14, 2012, 10:14 PM   #91
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Quote:
I don't have enough experience with all weapons to know if Ruger (at least the SR series) is the only exception to the your statement, but it is an exception. They do not intend for the slide stop to be used as a slide release. You may be able to force it to release that way, but it is not how it was designed.


The SR series is one of the few autoloaders the behaves this way and this is the main reason I don't want one (the mating surfaces of the slide and stop are grinded far beyond 90 degrees, that's why it doesn't release easily). I prefer to release the slide with the release.

Compare the SRs with the Ruger MK II where the release lever is perfectly textured and angled for use as a 'release' but almost cuts into your finger when using it as a 'stop'.
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Old February 15, 2012, 12:06 AM   #92
TunnelRat
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The part of the slide stop that extends OUT from the slide (where your fingers can press it) isn't necessary to keep the slide open. That stop lever could be flush and you could still keep the slide open -- and just close the slide using the slingshot technique.

Seems to me that the little flange on the lever that allows a finger pressure release, tells us that it's there for that REASON. That doesn't mean you can't slingshot -- nor does it mean that you MUST use the lever.
Explain to me how you would be able to engages the slide stop without a magazine in the firearm without that flange. To me that is why it is there.
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Old February 15, 2012, 05:54 AM   #93
Walt Sherrill
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Explain to me how you would be able to engages the slide stop without a magazine in the firearm without that flange. To me that is why it is there.
Note: I agree with you. I think it's meant to be pressed, but am just making the point that the gun will function without you ever touching it.

The lock engages automatically when the magazine empties, and you don't have to touch it. And you can release it when using the slingshot technique, and you don't have to touch it.

Like you, I think that if the gun designers DIDN'T want you to be able to disengage the slide lock or slide release by finger pressure they wouldn't have put the flange there that allows it to be pressed -- because the slide will lock back (and can be released) without you touching the lever. They clearly put it there for a reason.

It appears that the folks who designed the SR9c look at it differently, as do the folks who designed the Walter PPK/S mentioned in an earlier response.

That does not explain why other guns are offered with EXTENDED SLIDE RELEASES, that allow you to release the slide without changing your grip... I have had such weapons, and my favorite gun, a custom AT-84s has had all of its controls (including the slide release) extended for easier access -- it's a great gun.

The SR9C manual tells you what THAT gun's designers think is best for THAT GUN. The PPK/s obviously is meant to be used in a different way. Some small guns don't even have a slide release, and don't lock back after the last shot -- what does any of this tell us? Not much.

Last edited by Walt Sherrill; February 15, 2012 at 11:31 AM.
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Old February 15, 2012, 08:51 AM   #94
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I agree that it is a viable option, though it is one I choose not to use. What we need is someone to test using it on a weapon that explicitly says not to and see if any breakages actually occur.
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Old February 15, 2012, 11:29 AM   #95
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They probably didn't want you to sling shot the slide or use the hand over slide method with an M9 since you might accidentally push down on the safety making the gun inoperable in a high stress situation. This is the reason many prefer the decocker only levers on the M9/92FS series of pistols.

I personally use the hand over slide method with every semi-auto I own as demonstrated here by Clint Smith.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVGQQhkjzec
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Old February 15, 2012, 07:06 PM   #96
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I always sling shot using the overhand technique.
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Old February 15, 2012, 08:00 PM   #97
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I never release my slide on an empty chamber, but always keep my 1911 in condition 1, when empty I reload and drop the slide release, never sling shot, to chamber a round after cleaning I just rack the slide, simple.

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Old February 15, 2012, 08:11 PM   #98
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I overhand all my semi-auto pistols as this action charges every semi-auto that I know of. The M9 or Beretta 92FS has a slide safety (applies to any SA with slide safety) which could be activated during a "slingshot" or overhand method so I am guessing this is why you were taught not to do so.
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